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Thread: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by Crovax View Post
    An air rifle can still be deadly, so I dont see much of a distinction as to the police treatment of the weapon. Its hard to tell what really went on since the walmart audio is low and the action happens mostly off screen.
    An air rifle isn't going to be deadly to a human, unless it's large caliber, and you won't find those in Walmart. It's a very select audience who buys higher cal air rifles, and they are typically very knowledgeable about airguns, and are not stupid enough to walk around in the store, looking like they are carrying a regular rifle. I think the cops have gone overboard, but anyone who can't figure out that he looks like a potential threat, walking around with what looks like a rifle, shouldn't be carrying guns of any kind, at all. This entire story is tragic.
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by Crovax View Post
    An air gun shoots a metal pellet up to 6 times faster than an electric airsoft gun, they dont have orange tips because they are just as dangerous as real guns and should be treated the same
    NO, they are not just as dangerous, and they are not classified as firearms in most places.
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    I know most Walmarts and stores like that have a sporting section, I don't see why they can't keep those type of guns there, if they already don't, and then take them up front to be purchased before leaving. I don't think it's to anyone's benefit to have people walking around stores with realistic looking guns that may cause concern from other shoppers. That being said after watching the video, the police did not even give the guy a chance. The caller was totally exaggerating the situation causing the police to act with much more caution then they should have. From the time you can see the police entering near the aisle to the time that guy is dead on the floor is like less than 2 seconds. The police officer should have been charged and I would want the caller to be punished atleast for a false police report since it's obvious when he is reporting the guy is pointing the 'gun' at people and reloading that it is not even close to being true.
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by aseidner View Post
    No indictment in police shooting at Ohio Walmart - CNN.com

    Granted that walking around in a store with a realistic looking air rifle is a terrible idea, I really think the police went way overboard here. Watching the surveillance video, it does not even appear that the police gave Crawford a chance to surrender, opting to shoot first and ask questions later. The 911 caller shares some of the blame for this incident as well, as he describes Crawford as if he's behaving in a threatening manner when he clearly is not. Some other customers walk by and do even appear remotely threatened or worried. The whole thing was a bad situation for sure, but I think that the police were way too trigger happy and should face charges.

    Here is the surveillance video for reference (shooting begins at 4:57): Surveillance video and 911 audio of Beavercreek Walmart shooting | Local News - WLWT Home
    There was another officer completely outside of the video, standing in the area on the far wall, facing him (you can see him run up after the guy goes down). Likely, that officer was talking to him, trying to get him to put down the rifle.

    This guy was obviously disturbed or trying to start something. He spent at least 5 minutes (we don't know how long he stood there prior to the video starting) standing in the same spot in WalMart, slinging an air rifle back and forth the whole time. He wasn't picking up products from that area or anything. He was waiting for something to happen.
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by americanwoman View Post
    I know most Walmarts and stores like that have a sporting section, I don't see why they can't keep those type of guns there, if they already don't, and then take them up front to be purchased before leaving. I don't think it's to anyone's benefit to have people walking around stores with realistic looking guns that may cause concern from other shoppers. That being said after watching the video, the police did not even give the guy a chance. The caller was totally exaggerating the situation causing the police to act with much more caution then they should have. From the time you can see the police entering near the aisle to the time that guy is dead on the floor is like less than 2 seconds. The police officer should have been charged and I would want the caller to be punished atleast for a false police report since it's obvious when he is reporting the guy is pointing the 'gun' at people and reloading that it is not even close to being true.
    You have no idea how long the officer who comes in from the other direction was there, talking to the guy, confronting him. You can't tell from the video and the camera angle, but you know he was there, since he runs up as soon as the guy goes down, along the far wall.

    There was no false report. The caller saw the guy waving/swinging a rifle. He had no way to know what kind it was. The guy looks more interested in the rifle and to be waiting for something to happen than he is in whatever is on that shelf.
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    An air rifle isn't going to be deadly to a human, unless it's large caliber, and you won't find those in Walmart. It's a very select audience who buys higher cal air rifles, and they are typically very knowledgeable about airguns, and are not stupid enough to walk around in the store, looking like they are carrying a regular rifle. I think the cops have gone overboard, but anyone who can't figure out that he looks like a potential threat, walking around with what looks like a rifle, shouldn't be carrying guns of any kind, at all. This entire story is tragic.
    And how was anyone to know whether the guy got the gun from WalMart or actually brought it in with him? I realize that it might be assumed that someone would see him walk in with it, but it might depend on the level of observation of the staff. The first employee we see doesn't even pay attention to him. If there was access to the store through the garden department (which was right there), then it is also possible that he came in through there. Or he could have also brought it in, saying he was looking for ammo for it and then walked around with it.
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And how was anyone to know whether the guy got the gun from WalMart or actually brought it in with him? I realize that it might be assumed that someone would see him walk in with it, but it might depend on the level of observation of the staff. The first employee we see doesn't even pay attention to him. If there was access to the store through the garden department (which was right there), then it is also possible that he came in through there. Or he could have also brought it in, saying he was looking for ammo for it and then walked around with it.
    I'll tell you something that struck me as very odd. At Walmart stores I have been to, the air rifles are in boxes. They aren't displayed like regular rifles in a case. If he was carrying an air rifle off the shelf, then he was doubly stupid for taking it out of the box and carrying it around the store. If he took it into the store with him, he was doubly stupid for not informing every single employee of what he was doing. People are stupid when it comes to guns, and you have to allow for the stupidity of the average joe not knowing what they are looking at. Just as another poster here claimed that air rifle are just as deadly as real rifles, the general public who doesn't shoot, has no idea what they are talking about, and should NOT be given the benefit of the doubt.

    As for the ammo, air rifle pellets at Walmart come in two calibers. .177 and .22. You do not need the air rifle with you to find it. They comes in little metal cans, and the caliber of the airgun is usually marked on the barrel or the breach, and the cans are clearly marked as to caliber.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by aseidner View Post
    Here is the surveillance video for reference (shooting begins at 4:57): Surveillance video and 911 audio of Beavercreek Walmart shooting | Local News - WLWT Home
    Good shooting on the part of the police.

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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    You have no idea how long the officer who comes in from the other direction was there, talking to the guy, confronting him. You can't tell from the video and the camera angle, but you know he was there, since he runs up as soon as the guy goes down, along the far wall.

    There was no false report. The caller saw the guy waving/swinging a rifle. He had no way to know what kind it was. The guy looks more interested in the rifle and to be waiting for something to happen than he is in whatever is on that shelf.
    Did you watch the video? You can see them approach at 8;26;54 to the aisle, the you can actually hear them at 8;26;55 scream something at the guy that sounds like drop the gun, at 8;26;56 they guy has his knees bended with the gun pointed down, like he is going to drop the gun, and then at 8;26;57 you hear the shots and see the guy on the ground. Right before starting from 8;26;51 you can see a shadow from the cop. The guy is still standing there like nothing so it's obvious by that and the lack of sound, which you can clearly hear when the cops do start to talk and approach the guy, that there was no type of negotiation or confrontation. The approached and shot plain and simple. It's there on camera with audio and a second by second account.



    The caller also watched multiple people walk in and out of the aisle with no issues or threat, although he claimed there was - @ 8;25;44 he claims he pointed it at two children when he didn't even have it raised in the air. And point out where the guy was reloading it like the caller claimed.
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Didn't we pass a law a while back where all air rifles that look even remotely "assault like" have orange tips? I'm not sure how you miss that...
    The orange tip is for toys. An air rifle is a real gun, not a toy.

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