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Thread: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

  1. #181
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I don't think he was lying. I just think he was incredibly wrong, and his misperceptions led to a tragedy
    And unfortunately it is part of being human. That man will likely have to live with his bad reporting on what was going on for the rest of his life, as the police officer will have to deal with killing someone who likely was just a victim of bad circumstances, including his bad decision to pick up a rifle and walk around a store with it out, swinging it back and forth. That in itself is not normal behavior. The majority of people would not think it was okay to do this and not have someone scared by those actions. Scared people are not rational. Then their irrationality can lead to others getting bad information. If that bad information is believable it can be tragic.

    It doesn't even have to be a situation of someone being scared really, just overly stressful. When I broke my nose, the report that went out to the watch officer was that I had been sucked into the seawater valve. That isn't even possible, which is a good thing, since a report like that could have caused many other problems had it been possible to do. Did the guy who reported it mean to cause a panic or say something like that? No. But people aren't always rational or don't completely consider what they are saying during stressful situations.
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    You need help with that?

    1. Thinking it's a good idea to walk around with an air gun that looks like a firearm.
    2. Picking up an air gun left out at Walmart and walking around with it.
    3. Any sort of swinging it about or even having the barrel pointed in any direction other than 'safe'.
    4. Not immediately dropping the gun when confronted by police with weapons drawn.

    The whole thing is like a kid that didn't understand what was going on and thought he was being arrested for shoplifting.
    1) In a store that sells them? Nothing odd about it and certainly not a sign of mental illness or impairment.

    2) Same as #1

    3) Not very bright, but not odd nor a sign of mental illness or impairment

    4) He was putting the gun down when he was shot.
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  3. #183
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And unfortunately it is part of being human. That man will likely have to live with his bad reporting on what was going on for the rest of his life, as the police officer will have to deal with killing someone who likely was just a victim of bad circumstances, including his bad decision to pick up a rifle and walk around a store with it out, swinging it back and forth. That in itself is not normal behavior. The majority of people would not think it was okay to do this and not have someone scared by those actions. Scared people are not rational. Then their irrationality can lead to others getting bad information. If that bad information is believable it can be tragic.

    It doesn't even have to be a situation of someone being scared really, just overly stressful. When I broke my nose, the report that went out to the watch officer was that I had been sucked into the seawater valve. That isn't even possible, which is a good thing, since a report like that could have caused many other problems had it been possible to do. Did the guy who reported it mean to cause a panic or say something like that? No. But people aren't always rational or don't completely consider what they are saying during stressful situations.
    Sure, people are people and stress and emotion can color their perceptions. My focus is on the police and their response, which is supposed to be based on a professional assessment of the facts. IMO, the officer who fired the first shot was incompetent.
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  4. #184
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Sure, people are people and stress and emotion can color their perceptions. My focus is on the police and their response, which is supposed to be based on a professional assessment of the facts. IMO, the officer who fired the first shot was incompetent.
    Police are still people. They were getting information that they thought was accurate and what do they see when they arrive? A man holding a gun right where they were told he would be. Why would they have any reason to think that the information they were getting wasn't true? What indication did they have that the info was inaccurate? You have no proof/evidence that the officer who fired the first shot was incompetent at all. You are basing that off of your personal feelings. Obviously, the grand jury doesn't agree with you.
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Police are still people.
    And like every other professional, they are held to professional standards at work

    They were getting information that they thought was accurate
    If they believe what they were told over the phone without independently verifying it, then that is incompetence.

    and what do they see when they arrive? A man holding a gun right where they were told he would be. Why would they have any reason to think that the information they were getting wasn't true? What indication did they have that the info was inaccurate?
    They're job is not to believe anything anyone tells them until it's proven wrong.

    You have no proof/evidence that the officer who fired the first shot was incompetent at all. You are basing that off of your personal feelings. Obviously, the grand jury doesn't agree with you.
    No, I'm basing it off the recording which shows Crawford putting the weapon down less than a second after the officer orders him to put the gun down, and then get shot before he has enough time to do so.
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  6. #186
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    And like every other professional, they are held to professional standards at work

    If they believe what they were told over the phone without independently verifying it, then that is incompetence.

    They're job is not to believe anything anyone tells them until it's proven wrong.

    No, I'm basing it off the recording which shows Crawford putting the weapon down less than a second after the officer orders him to put the gun down, and then get shot before he has enough time to do so.
    No, it isn't incompetence. It is verified by the fact that the guy had a gun in public, obviously being careless with it. They could see that. Then he didn't drop the gun when ordered to.

    Their job is to protect everyone with the information they have. I didn't see him putting the weapon down until after the first shot was heard. And as I said, apparently neither did the Grand Jury since they deemed that the officer should not be indicted for anything here.
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Loading them is actually kind of a PIA and annoying if you are used to shooting other types of guns, lol.
    Yes, it is. Especially a Crosman pump, which is what the one in this story was. They are a huge pita, and like I said, if you aren't familiar with them, you'd have hell trying to figure out the sequence for loading, and how the 5-pellet clip is inserted. I have a good bit of experience with this type of pellet rifle. It's a pain in the ass.
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    No, it isn't incompetence.
    Yes it is not only incompetence. It also goes against basic standard procedures for investigating an incident.

    It is verified by the fact that the guy had a gun in public, obviously being careless with it.
    The only thing that is verified by seeing the guy with the gun is that there's a guy with a gun. It does not verify that he waved it at anyone or that he was behaving aggresively or threatening anyone. The only way an officer can confirm that he is behaving aggressively or threatening is by observing the man acting aggressively or threateningly.

    And there was nothing careless about Crawfords behavior while the police are there except until after he is shot. If you believe differently, I would appreciate it if you would point out the specific behavior that you think was careless and note the time on the video

    Here's a link to the video
    Beavercreek Walmart shooting: Grand jury returns no indictments | www.whio.com

    They could see that. Then he didn't drop the gun when ordered to.
    He was dropping the gun but they shot him less than a second after telling him to drop the gun.

    Their job is to protect everyone with the information they have. I didn't see him putting the weapon down until after the first shot was heard. And as I said, apparently neither did the Grand Jury since they deemed that the officer should not be indicted for anything here.
    You are wrong. He is clearly leaning down and towards his right to put the weapon on the ground when the officer shoots him.

    And the GJ said nothing about that. It's not their job to make such pronouncements. They have a limited task - judge if there's enough evidence to prosecute someone for a crime. That's it.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    The man who called 911 is the only person who was impaired and/or has a mental disability. Does anyone know if the caller was drug tested? At best he has a disability which prevents him from seeing and being able to ascertain what's happening in the real world because of hallucinations. At worse he's a sociopath who deliberately escalated this situation that lead to an innocent person's death.
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    1) In a store that sells them? Nothing odd about it and certainly not a sign of mental illness or impairment.

    2) Same as #1

    3) Not very bright, but not odd nor a sign of mental illness or impairment

    4) He was putting the gun down when he was shot.
    Well, no, not really. At least not in this part of the country. In a gun store, you wont typically see anyone walking around swinging a gun around. They will look at the gun at the counter, in the presence of the salesman. They may inspect the action or the barrel, but they usually hand it back to the salesman, and pay for it, then leave the store, or finish their shopping, then pick the gun up on the way out the door. His behavior wasn't typical of a serious gun owner.
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