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Thread: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

  1. #161
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    I agree he looked impaired.

    Please point out one fact from the video that supports your perception.
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    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  2. #162
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    The only thing that the caller got correct was that he guy was swinging the gun. The video does not show that he even once pointed that gun at anyone or that he was loading it. It should be noted that you load a pellet gun far differently than you do a real gun....at least last I knew. I do admit its been awhile since I loaded one and they may have changed it.
    You dont know if he was pointing it at people when he pointed it at a 90 degree angle to the camera. It also looked to me like he pointed it in the camera's direction and we saw some people in that area but not all may have been visible on camera.

    And it looked to me like he was struggling to load it...and it can be a PIA to load an airgun. Esp. if he didnt know how. I could not tell if he was successful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
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    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Please point out one fact from the video that supports your perception.
    Why do you need facts when I said he 'appeared?' This is from my perspective watching:

    His standing in Walmart fumbling with a gun, his actions looked inept and aimless, even confused, and I can not think of any reasons why an adult in the proper frame of mind would do what he was doing. There may be some. None come to mind.

    I dont have his medical records, blood or urine test results (post or pre-mortem), or psychiatric profile.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  4. #164
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    I agree that it's relevant but would the police be aware of policy? Would they have been informed/had time to find out?
    I dunno, but it seems they presumed the weapon came from outside. It doesn't seem an extensive attempt was made to ID the weapon. If they had reason to believe it was an air gun off the shelf, a closer examination of the weapon would reveal such. I'd guess the easiest place to look is the magazine, but someone trained to look for such would know other parts that would indicate such.

    I would guess, by the store policy and the actions of the police, that there was a bad assumption made regarding the origin of the gun; an assumption that precluded a more vigorous attempt to ID the gun.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Did Walmart sell him that airgun? I didnt see that confirmed.
    While it appears I am as uninformed about the event as you (see my earlier posts a bit above), my understanding is the gun was left out of the box, against policy that air guns be in boxes and wrapped.

    While someone argued that keeping the air guns in boxes and wrapped is merely a matter of theft prevention, I think it's also obviously to prevent children from picking one up and playing with it.


    So many different sub-events lead to the tragedy.

    1. Someone picked up an air gun that should have been in a box and wrapped instead of open and inviting examination.
    2. That someone was not a kid but an adult.
    3. 911 calls were inaccurate.
    3a. Acting aggressive (perhaps an understandable mis-perception)
    3b. Loading the weapon. - This gives another reason to presume it's not an air gun.
    4. When told to drop the weapon, the person seems to have suffered confusion.


    Those and other things lead to a situation in which someone might have thought they were being (improperly) arrested for shoplifting when, in fact and reasonably, the cops were in fear of life.

    So many things could have gone differently, throughout the course of sub-events, I don't get trying to blame the cops.

  5. #165
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Actually, we do know that it was the only "Drop the gun" yelled by the cops.
    Actually, we don't. Our audio comes solely from the 911 call being synced with the video surveillance. That means that anything that was happening further than about 20 or 30 feet from the guy on the phone would be hard to hear. Even just a few feet from him would get muffled more and more. It is possible that officers from the other direction told him to drop the gun before the one we hear in the audio.
    Last edited by roguenuke; 09-29-14 at 05:53 PM.
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  6. #166
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Actually, the recording contradicts much of what he reported. particularly the most threatening sounding claims (e he loaded the weapon, he pointed it at two children)
    Looked like he could have been attempting to load it to me. And since we cant see off camera, it's hard to say he didnt point it at anyone. The caller may have been able to see those things better than the video.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  7. #167
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I dunno, but it seems they presumed the weapon came from outside. It doesn't seem an extensive attempt was made to ID the weapon. If they had reason to believe it was an air gun off the shelf, a closer examination of the weapon would reveal such. I'd guess the easiest place to look is the magazine, but someone trained to look for such would know other parts that would indicate such.

    I would guess, by the store policy and the actions of the police, that there was a bad assumption made regarding the origin of the gun; an assumption that precluded a more vigorous attempt to ID the gun.

    While it appears I am as uninformed about the event as you (see my earlier posts a bit above), my understanding is the gun was left out of the box, against policy that air guns be in boxes and wrapped.

    While someone argued that keeping the air guns in boxes and wrapped is merely a matter of theft prevention, I think it's also obviously to prevent children from picking one up and playing with it.
    Thanks. Someone answered it for me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  8. #168
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Police are trained to assess a situation based on the facts they observe and not believe and rely on reports that are called in.

    Walmart didn't sell him the gun. If Walmart is sued, it will be because the gun was not boxed.

    As far as Crawford being mentally ill, there is no evidence that he was nor was his behavior indicative of mental illness.
    Well then when they see a gun, they will assume it is loaded.

    Yes, I've been told now that the airgun was available.

    That is your opinion....not mine...regarding his behavior.
    Last edited by Lursa; 09-29-14 at 05:52 PM. Reason: fixed typo
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  9. #169
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Why do you need facts when I said he 'appeared?'
    Because when you talk about how something appeared, you're referring to something you saw or heard.

    This is from my perspective watching:

    His standing in Walmart fumbling with a gun, his actions looked inept and aimless, even confused, and I can not think of any reasons why an adult in the proper frame of mind would do what he was doing. There may be some. None come to mind.
    I noticed you don't state anything specific that he did. What "fumbling" are you talking about? What specific actions of his looked inept or aimless or confused. What specifically did he do that no other adult in their proper frame of mind would do?

    And why does confusion, fumbling, ineptness suggest mental illness to you? There are plenty of people who are not mentally ill who are inept, confused, aimless, etc at times.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  10. #170
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Please point out one fact from the video that supports your perception.
    Look at my first post. I had no idea the guy was on the phone until after reading more about this. And what conversation keeps a person in the same place for over 5 minutes, swinging a gun back and forth. He didn't even appear to pick up anything from the shelves. This was odd behavior. Is that something to get shot for? No. But it does kind of add to where confusion about the situation can come from.

    I've gotten the look before of "what is wrong with this person" while talking on my phone using a hands free device when they first came out. The woman at the coffee counter thought I was nuts because I was talking to my mom without any obvious signs that I was using a cell phone.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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