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Thread: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    I'm wondering why a youtube video is clearer than the video presented in the OP.

    In anycase in this video it is easier to see that it looks like the guy swung the rifle somewhat up after the cops said something to him and it also looks like he was bending his knees. Possibly to shoot it, possibly to put it down. Its hard to tell. I personally think that we may have known for sure had the 911 caller not lied. Which he did do. For that reason the police officers were edgy as all get out....which is understandable. That 911 caller lying is what lead to the death of this kid imo.
    Possibly to shoot an air rifle? Seriously?
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Bull. I saw the mother glance over at the guy, say something to the kids, and they left into the garden section, eventhough it looked like they were going to be getting fish. Then she starts looking for someone, probably an employee and it appears like she is gesturing for someone to make a phone call. She walks immediately the other way when she steps back inside, away from the guy with the gun. She obviously felt somewhat threatened by him. Now, I didn't see him point the gun at anyone, however, that doesn't mean the guy talking didn't believe he did. Afterall, we have no idea what angle the guy talking is seeing this from. The guy with the gun was moving the gun around much of the time, swinging it up and down at least.
    Yes, indeed, most mothers who supposedly feel threatened, with two small children in tow, will reenter a store where a lunatic is supposedly threatening people with a rifle. And you call bull? That's hilarious.
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by Crovax View Post
    An air gun shoots a metal pellet up to 6 times faster than an electric airsoft gun, they dont have orange tips because they are just as dangerous as real guns and should be treated the same
    I get an air gun is dangerous, but let's not get carried away Crovax. There's a reason why our soldier aren't running around carrying air guns...

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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    I get an air gun is dangerous, but let's not get carried away Crovax. There's a reason why our soldier aren't running around carrying air guns...
    There is also a reason are soldiers arent using .22 guns either, does that mean we should call those toys also?

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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    Possibly to shoot an air rifle? Seriously?
    I'm going to be blunt here. People are stupid. I have no problems seeing someone attempting to shoot people/cops with even the weakest air gun out there that couldn't hurt a fly much less hurt anyone. And air guns can be deadly. The Crosman MK-711 (which this guy apparently had) is considered as a small game hunting air rifle. It will shoot pellets at 800FPS which is roughly about 3/4 of the speed of a standard .22 bullet. That's still enough to kill someone. Many people don't realize just how deadly an air rifle can be. Back when I was a kid I had a BB pump air gun that would fire a BB at the same fps as a .22 bullet.

    Besides all that, the cops had no idea whether it was an air gun when they first arrived or not. An air rifle can look the same as any other real rifle. And if someone lifts it in what could be perceived as a threatening manner then they are going to shoot. And I can't blame them for doing so.
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by Crovax View Post
    There is also a reason are soldiers arent using .22 guns either, does that mean we should call those toys also?
    There's some people who go hunting with a .22 gun, now I could be wrong here, but I don't recall people "hunting with air guns". I know of kids shooting bb guns at squirrels though...

    Do you have some balistics that can demonstrate that an air gun is just as strong as even a .22 gun, I'd be very interesting in seeing that.

    However if the next poster is to be believed, than it seems you are wrong again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    I'm going to be blunt here. People are stupid. I have no problems seeing someone attempting to shoot people/cops with even the weakest air gun out there that couldn't hurt a fly much less hurt anyone. And air guns can be deadly. The Crosman MK-711 (which this guy apparently had) is considered as a small game hunting air rifle. It will shoot pellets at 800FPS which is roughly about 3/4 of the speed of a standard .22 bullet. That's still enough to kill someone. Many people don't realize just how deadly an air rifle can be. Back when I was a kid I had a BB pump air gun that would fire a BB at the same fps as a .22 bullet.

    Besides all that, the cops had no idea whether it was an air gun when they first arrived or not. An air rifle can look the same as any other real rifle. And if someone lifts it in what could be perceived as a threatening manner then they are going to shoot. And I can't blame them for doing so.

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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    There's some people who go hunting with a .22 gun, now I could be wrong here, but I don't recall people "hunting with air guns". I know of kids shooting bb guns at squirrels though...

    Do you have some balistics that can demonstrate that an air gun is just as strong as even a .22 gun, I'd be very interesting in seeing that.

    However if the next poster is to be believed, than it seems you are wrong again.
    you just claimed an air gun wasnt used for hunting and then used a post claiming it was used for hunting to back up a different argument. I never said an air gun was ballisticly as strong as a .22 only that they both can kill and should be treated as such by police.

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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    There's some people who go hunting with a .22 gun, now I could be wrong here, but I don't recall people "hunting with air guns". I know of kids shooting bb guns at squirrels though...

    Do you have some balistics that can demonstrate that an air gun is just as strong as even a .22 gun, I'd be very interesting in seeing that.

    However if the next poster is to be believed, than it seems you are wrong again.
    There is actually quite the market for air guns....

    .22 Cal Air Rifles
    Benjamin Trail NP XL 1500
    Walmart Crosman MK-177 that the guy in the OP had

    And I could provide many many links of other airguns used as hunting guns.

    As for the ballistics the Benjamin link there shows a gun that has a pellet traveling at 1500 fps. Here is a link to a simple page that shows some .22 bullet speeds. Link

    .22 rimfire cartridge 12001500 fps
    .22 centerfire cartridge 24003000 fps
    .22 Swift 4000 fps
    .38 Special 600 fps
    .221 Fireball 2650 fps
    That Benjamin link would easily fit within the catagory for the .22 Rimfire cartridge...and the one that the guy in walmart had would easily fit with in the .38 special catagory.
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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    I'm going to be blunt here. People are stupid. I have no problems seeing someone attempting to shoot people/cops with even the weakest air gun out there that couldn't hurt a fly much less hurt anyone. And air guns can be deadly. The Crosman MK-711 (which this guy apparently had) is considered as a small game hunting air rifle. It will shoot pellets at 800FPS which is roughly about 3/4 of the speed of a standard .22 bullet. That's still enough to kill someone. Many people don't realize just how deadly an air rifle can be. Back when I was a kid I had a BB pump air gun that would fire a BB at the same fps as a .22 bullet.

    Besides all that, the cops had no idea whether it was an air gun when they first arrived or not. An air rifle can look the same as any other real rifle. And if someone lifts it in what could be perceived as a threatening manner then they are going to shoot. And I can't blame them for doing so.
    I've got zero experience in the world of guns but you raise an issue here that doesn't make sense to me. I don't understand why people who are adamantly in favour of individual gun ownership and very limited or no restrictions on such individual rights aren't really ticked off and strenuously advocating for far clearer appearance differentiation between "toys" and "weapons".

    On numerous occasions, I've heard of people being shot by police because they had a "toy" gun and police believed it was a real weapon and had no way of knowing otherwise. I've also seen it said that toys are supposed to have some orange markings on the barrel that identifies it as a toy, but why are we allowing toy makers to produce and sell toys that have all the appearance of real weapons? Why isn't the entire toy orange? A kid wouldn't care as long as it wasn't pink like a girl's gun.

    And why have pellet guns or air guns or whatever the case was here, on display in stores for customers to pick up and carry around, potentially removed from packages, and mistaken for something more dangerous even though from the sounds of it pellet and air guns can be very dangerous themselves?

    Perhaps this is just coming from someone with no gun history, but seems to me gun advocates and those who want to protect their gun ownership and possession rights would be damn mad that these kinds of incidents are putting serious, responsible gun owners/advocates in a bad light and just inflaming those who want to take those rights away. Why isn't the NRA lobbying to make toy guns far more distinguishable and why don't they advocate that all weapons that can do serious damage to humans be sold in a controlled store environment?
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: No indictment in police shooting death of Ohio man carrying air rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I've got zero experience in the world of guns but you raise an issue here that doesn't make sense to me. I don't understand why people who are adamantly in favour of individual gun ownership and very limited or no restrictions on such individual rights aren't really ticked off and strenuously advocating for far clearer appearance differentiation between "toys" and "weapons".

    On numerous occasions, I've heard of people being shot by police because they had a "toy" gun and police believed it was a real weapon and had no way of knowing otherwise. I've also seen it said that toys are supposed to have some orange markings on the barrel that identifies it as a toy, but why are we allowing toy makers to produce and sell toys that have all the appearance of real weapons? Why isn't the entire toy orange? A kid wouldn't care as long as it wasn't pink like a girl's gun.

    And why have pellet guns or air guns or whatever the case was here, on display in stores for customers to pick up and carry around, potentially removed from packages, and mistaken for something more dangerous even though from the sounds of it pellet and air guns can be very dangerous themselves?

    Perhaps this is just coming from someone with no gun history, but seems to me gun advocates and those who want to protect their gun ownership and possession rights would be damn mad that these kinds of incidents are putting serious, responsible gun owners/advocates in a bad light and just inflaming those who want to take those rights away. Why isn't the NRA lobbying to make toy guns far more distinguishable and why don't the advocate that all weapons that can do serious damage to humans be sold in a controlled store environment?
    There are already laws that require manufacturers to make, at the very least, the tip of a toy gun bright orange so there is no need to call for such a law. It already exists. And it exists due to those instances that you talk about...kids being shot by police for having a toy gun that looked real. This however will not stop a kid from painting the gun to look real or removing that tip. That kind of thing just simply is not able to be stopped.

    As for air guns...they're simply not considered dangerous enough to require such restrictions. Look at this thread for that example. Lots of people consider them a "toy". Indeed, I don't even think that there are any laws forbidden felons from owning an airgun. Think maybe i'll check into that to find out for sure. I as a felon might just get one for home defense since i'm not allowed any other type of gun for home defense.....or maybe a paintball gun....without protective gear those things HURT and would make such a person easily marked and found by police....hmm.....
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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