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Thread: Putin threatens wwIII? or just more propaganda?

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    Re: Putin threatens wwIII? or just more propaganda?

    Quote Originally Posted by B_Dubz
    Lord knows Russia and the usa are cranking out propaganda at a alarming rate...

    If you dont believe me, do you believe Gallup? In 2013 the country was basically split down the middle.

    Before Crisis, Ukrainians More Likely to See NATO as a Threat

    I think it still is... That's all...
    A plurality supported entrance into the EU Agreement and the Euromaidan protests:

    Public opinion about Euromaidan

    According to December 2013 polls (by three different pollsters) between 45% and 50% of Ukrainians supported Euromaidan, while between 42% and 50% opposed it.[127][128][129] The biggest support for the protest can be found in Kiev (about 75%) and western Ukraine (more than 80%).[127][130] Among Euromaidan protesters, 55% are from the west of the country, with 24% from central Ukraine and 21% from the east.[131]

    In a poll taken on 7–8 December, 73% of protesters had committed to continue protesting in Kiev as long as needed until their demands are fulfilled.[6] This number has increased to 82% as of 3 February 2014.[131] Polls also show that the nation is divided in age: while majority of young people are pro-EU, older generations (50 and above) more often prefer the Customs Union of Belarus, Kazakhstan, and Russia.[132] More than 41% of protesters are ready to take part in the seizure of administrative buildings as of February, compared to 13 and 19 percent during polls on 10 and 20 December 2013. At the same time, more than 50 percent are ready to take part in the creation of independent military units, compared to 15 and 21 percent during the past studies, respectively.[131]

    Headquarters of the Euromaidan. At the front entrance there is a portrait of Stepan Bandera - fighter for the independence of Ukraine.

    According to a January poll, 45% of Ukrainians supported the protests, and 48% of Ukrainians disapproved of Euromaidan.[133]

    In a March poll, 57% of Ukrainians said they supported the Euromaidan protests.[134]

    Public opinion about joining the EU

    According to an August 2013 study by a Donetsk company, Research & Branding Group,[135] 49% of Ukrainians supported signing the Association Agreement, while 31% opposed it and the rest had not decided yet. However, in a December poll by the same company, only 30% claimed that terms of the Association agreement would be beneficial for the Ukrainian economy, while 39% said they were unfavourable for Ukraine. In the same poll, only 30% said the opposition would be able to stabilise the society and govern the country well, if coming to power, while 37% disagreed.[136]

    Authors of the GfK Ukraine poll conducted 2–15 October 2013 claim that 45% of respondents believed Ukraine should sign an Association Agreement with the EU, whereas only 14% favoured joining the Customs Union of Belarus, Kazakhstan, and Russia, and 15% preferred non-alignment. Full text of the EU-related question asked by GfK reads, "Should Ukraine sign the EU-Ukraine Association Agreement, and, in the future, become an EU member?"[137][138]

    Another poll conducted in November by IFAK Ukraine for DW-Trend showed 58% of Ukrainians supporting the country's entry into the European Union.[139] On the other hand a November 2013 poll by Kyiv International Institute of Sociology showed 39% supporting the country's entry into the European Union and 37% supporting Ukraine's accession to the Customs Union of Belarus, Kazakhstan and Russia.[140]


    In December 2013, then Prime Minister of Ukraine Mykola Azarov refuted the pro-EU poll numbers claiming that many polls posed questions about Ukraine joining the EU, and that Ukraine had never been invited to join the Union, but only to sign the Association Agreement.[141][142]



    Euromaidan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    Re: Putin threatens wwIII? or just more propaganda?

    The origin sin of Putin is he abandons the dollar in oil trading. That offends the US. Remember Gaddafi and Saddam? That's what US will do to deal with Putin.

    This thread is part of US strategy to tarnish Putin like what they have done to Gaddafi and Saddam. US is the terrorist of the world.

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    Re: Putin threatens wwIII? or just more propaganda?

    Quote Originally Posted by face, your View Post
    Who are these parties? The Telegraph and several other respected publications?


    The United Nations Human Rights investigators disagree with you:


    The United Nations refugee agency has reported that more than 34,000 Ukrainians have been displaced. Most were from Crimea, where people who speak Ukrainian or do not want to change their nationality to Russian face discrimination and intimidation, Mr. Magazzeni said.

    “They are mostly concerned about security: people report staying in cellars to keep away from the fighting, facing harassment at checkpoints and fearing the increasingly common abductions, threats and extortion,” the monitors reported.


    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/19/wo...aine.html?_r=0

    So ya the Crimea has been ethnically cleansed under the illegal Russian occupation.



    A) Do you not understand the concept that the Crimean Constitution clearly states that it is sovereign Ukrainian territory and their laws do not supercede that of the Kiev government or Constitution which clearly states that any territorial changes to the Ukraine can only be brought about through a NATIONAL referendum in which all Ukrainians get a vote.

    B) This was not a legal cessation it was a annexation, the referendum was held through a foreign installed occupation government under a foreign occupation, it was no more legitimate than the ceding of territory from France to Nazi Germany through the Vichy government.

    C) International law is not on your or the war criminals Putin's side and neither is the vast majority of the international community which voted overwhelming in the UNGA to declare the referendum illegitimate and to condemn it:

    United Nations General Assembly Resolution 68/262 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    D) The only reason why the UNSC did not pass this resolution is because Russia used their permanent member status to veto it, even China abstained:

    UNSC Resolution on Crimea Blocked



    So in your world if large hispanic heavy communities in the California, Texas, Arizona, etc voted to secede to Mexico you would call it legitimate even if they hold a bare majority? Utter rubbish this was a violation of both the Crimean and Ukrainian Constitutions, it was a violation of international law namely the prohibition of acquisition of territory through military conquest:

    War of aggression - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    Well I'm glad you think that a referendum conducted by an occupation government under a foreign occupation for annexation into the occupying nation is legitimate; fortunately the Geneva Conventions and International Community disagrees with you, the Crimea is occupied sovereign Ukrainian territory, it is not a debate it is the law.
    First off the media is full of it and bought off by the rich. Everyone knows it. If you don't your just ignorant or haven't been paying attention. That would include the telegraph an any other mass media source.

    I never said it was legal, I said I thought it would have passed either way.

    I care more about what the people of The region actually think, not what bs laws made by various oligarchs say... I thought I made that clear...

    And what about all the 54 country's that abstained? And the 24 states that wernt present? Obviously not everybody feels the same about it...

    Nothing is as it seems on either side.
    Last edited by b_dubz; 09-26-14 at 09:04 PM.

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    Re: Putin threatens wwIII? or just more propaganda?

    Quote Originally Posted by b_dubz View Post
    First off the media is full of it and bought off by the rich. Everyone knows it. If you don't your just ignorant or haven't been paying attention. That would include the telegraph an any other mass media source.
    You have yet to provide a single scrap of evidence that what the completely legitimate and well respected news sources was false.

    I never said it was legal, I said I thought it would have passed either way.

    I care more about what the people of The region actually think, not what bs laws made by various oligarchs say... I thought I made that clear...
    So a) you are an extreme nationalist who believes that ethnic divisions should be the basis for the state, b) you believe illegal referendums under a tyranny of the majority should be followed, and c) you support overt war crimes IE the annexation of sovereign territory through offensive military conquest and occupation, as well as, the ethnic cleansing that followed, good to know.

    And what about all the 54 country's that abstained? And the 24 states that wernt present? Obviously not everybody feels the same about it...

    Nothing is as it seems on either side.
    A) They are outnumbered by 100 who voted for it.

    B) An abstention or absent vote is as good as a yay vote when it is clear that the resolution was going to pass.

    C) Only 11 countries voted against the resolutions and every single one of them is an authoritarian or a totalitarian regime, every single liberal democracy on the planet voted for the resolution.
    Last edited by face, your; 09-27-14 at 12:46 AM.

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    Re: Putin threatens wwIII? or just more propaganda?

    Quote Originally Posted by face, your View Post
    You have yet to provide a single scrap of evidence that what the completely legitimate and well respected news sources was false.



    So a) you are an extreme nationalist who believes that ethnic divisions should be the basis for the state, b) you believe illegal referendums under a tyranny of the majority should be followed, good to know, and c) you support overt war crimes IE the annexation of sovereign territory through offensive military conquest and occupation.
    They provide it in the text. Do you not know what "alleged" means??

    No dummy I support the will of the ppl. The ppl of Crimea would have voted this way anyway IMO. I provided you with plenty of proof for that. Crimea was 58% Russian speaking before Russia got involved. Theirfore that's how they would have voted.

    Also I think how crimea joined the Ukraine (being gifted in a grand act of imperialism) was illegal to....

    I'm and I'm anything but a nationalist
    I'm a populist.

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    Re: Putin threatens wwIII? or just more propaganda?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    It was widely reported last week, when he made the claim. He said, basically, that he could take the capitals of the Balkans and the Baltic states in two days if he wanted to, during an interview about Ukraine peace talks. I don't think it was a threat of intended action, as much as a boast of what he felt they could do if they wanted to, so in comparison to take Kiev, Ukraine would be a walk in the park. It was just Putin peeing an a rock to mark his territory like a feral dog and rattle his sabre during the peace talks to be an arrogant bully. Nothing more, IMHO.
    Presuming he did say it...

    Yes, he could take the Balkan capitals within two days. But, could he keep them?
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: Putin threatens wwIII? or just more propaganda?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Presuming he did say it...
    Given the persona he portrays, I have no problem not only believing that he said it, but that he wanted it leaked.

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Yes, he could take the Balkan capitals within two days.
    Of course he could. At this time anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    But, could he keep them?
    Hard to say. Depends on how much each side was willing to risk.
    Everything in your life is a reflection of a choice you have made. If you want a different result, don't blame someone else, or expect others to make a change, you should stop complaining and make a different choice. Remember, the circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcome of your life.

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    Re: Putin threatens wwIII? or just more propaganda?

    Quote Originally Posted by b_dubz View Post
    They provide it in the text. Do you not know what "alleged" means??
    If you read the source they have two citations of people saying that Putin said basically the same thing, I have likewise provided another source where Putin threatened nuclear war.

    No dummy I support the will of the ppl. The ppl of Crimea would have voted this way anyway IMO. I provided you with plenty of proof for that. Crimea was 58% Russian speaking before Russia got involved. Theirfore that's how they would have voted.
    No you clearly support ethnic divisions for the basis of the state, you further support a tyranny of the majority within arbitrary territorial divisions regardless of the feelings of the majority of the nation-state which has sovereign over said territory you are likewise clearly in favor of overt war crimes which have been outlawed since the Reich and Nuremberg, and you are opposed to both Constitutional governance within a democratic framework.

    Also I think how crimea joined the Ukraine (being gifted in a grand act of imperialism) was illegal to....

    I'm and I'm anything but a nationalist
    I'm a populist.
    Sir you are in support of the division of Crimea which is sovereign Ukrainian territory along ethnic lines, it is as clear as day, you are not just a nationalist but a radical nationalist.

    And what about all the 54 country's that abstained? And the 24 states that wernt present? Obviously not everybody feels the same about it...

    Nothing is as it seems on either side.
    A) They are outnumbered by 100 who voted for it.

    B) An abstention or absent vote is as good as a yay vote when it is clear that the resolution was going to pass.

    C) Only 11 countries voted against the resolutions and every single one of them is an authoritarian or a totalitarian regime, every single liberal democracy on the planet voted for the resolution.

  9. #49
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    Re: Putin threatens wwIII? or just more propaganda?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    Given the persona he portrays, I have no problem not only believing that he said it, but that he wanted it leaked.

    Of course he could. At this time anyway. Hard to say. Depends on how much each side was willing to risk.
    I would not put it past him to have said it, and for the reason you state. It very well could have been a "tactical leak".

    I'm speculating, but I don't think NATO would defend Ukraine, but I do think they would defend the Balkans. I sense Putin knows this. Like I said, speculation on my part.

    As things stand now, subject to change. Putin does seem to be becoming more emboldened by his successes.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: Putin threatens wwIII? or just more propaganda?

    Quote Originally Posted by face, your View Post
    If you read the source they have two citations of people saying that Putin said basically the same thing, I have likewise provided another source where Putin threatened nuclear war.



    No you clearly support ethnic divisions for the basis of the state, you further support a tyranny of the majority within arbitrary territorial divisions regardless of the feelings of the majority of the nation-state which has sovereign over said territory you are likewise clearly in favor of overt war crimes which have been outlawed since the Reich and Nuremberg, and you are opposed to both Constitutional governance within a democratic framework.



    Sir you are in support of the division of Crimea which is sovereign Ukrainian territory along ethnic lines, it is as clear as day, you are not just a nationalist but a radical nationalist.



    A) They are outnumbered by 100 who voted for it.

    B) An abstention or absent vote is as good as a yay vote when it is clear that the resolution was going to pass.

    C) Only 11 countries voted against the resolutions and every single one of them is an authoritarian or a totalitarian regime, every single liberal democracy on the planet voted for the resolution.
    First of all the link you gave had others saying Putin threatened nukes.... Not him actually saying it...

    Second ppl saying somebody said something and somebody saying something are two very different things.

    Third I do not support ethnic divisions of any sort. I support THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE. Actually I am totally against racism, and think its one of the few things the ppl should not b able to vote for. I think hate speech should be a jailable offense for example...

    who is outnumbered? Proof? No? Ok then.

    Again I am not a nationalist. I am a populist. if you don't know the diff that's not my issue.

    If this were in dvorscheck i would say its wrong as I don't think they have majority their. In crimea I think they do.

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