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Thread: Putin threatens wwIII? or just more propaganda?

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    Re: Putin threatens wwIII? or just more propaganda?

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Really now! Can you prove he threatened WW3?
    Can you prove he didn't? Really, whether he said it or not doesn't matter. Actions speak louder than words, and Putin's actions have already betrayed his imperialist desires

    Quote Originally Posted by b_dubz View Post
    I disagree. What he did in Ukraine is about the same as what we did in Iraq. He invaded a sovereign nation that had no plans to attack him. Same as Iraq.

    As for NATO alliances and mutual defense agreements, you can bet your bottom dollar that if he attacked a NATO member that NATO would be forced to respond. It would breach many contracts and mutual defense agreements to do nothing...
    Moral Equivalency; the scourge of the world.

    Ukraine has never been a threat to Russia like Iraq was to the ME. We didn't annex territory and keep it for ourselves, oh wait, I mean land troops in plain clothes and force the population to "vote" for annexation. And when all was said and done, we left Iraq to the Iraqis, it's clear that Putin doesn't care what Ukrainians want. Bottom line, we went into Iraq to liberate it, Russia went into Ukraine to conquer.

    As far as NATO, do you really think the population of Europe would support a new war against Russia? Besides, we've learned the value of paper when Russia interfered in Ukraine's affair, which they agreed not to.

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    Re: Putin threatens wwIII? or just more propaganda?

    Putin's smarter than that.

    Also, weak source, man.
    "We have more responsibility than power, I think. The newspaper can create great controversies, stir up arguments within the community or discussion, can throw light on injustices....just as it can do the opposite. It can hide things and be a great power for evil." -- Rupert Murdoch, 1968

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    Re: Putin threatens wwIII? or just more propaganda?

    Quote Originally Posted by Van Basten View Post
    Putin's smarter than that.
    Is he? This is a man who essentially annexed Crimea and invaded Ukraine. A man who still adamantly denies that its happening both to his own people and the rest of the world despite ample proof to the contrary. I have no doubt that he would make such a statement if only to illustrate that it could be done and he's not at all concerned about NATO. Whether or not he would actually do it...who knows.

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    Re: Putin threatens wwIII? or just more propaganda?

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    Is he? This is a man who essentially annexed Crimea and invaded Ukraine. A man who still adamantly denies that its happening both to his own people and the rest of the world despite ample proof to the contrary. I have no doubt that he would make such a statement if only to illustrate that it could be done and he's not at all concerned about NATO. Whether or not he would actually do it...who knows.
    Crimea wanted to be annexed, was a autonomous state inside of Ukraine, and was gifted to Ukraine in a grand act of imperialism by the Russians in the 50s against the majority of its peoples will... The rest of Ukrainian ppls wishes is unfortunately much less clear. If you watch Russian roulette on vice I don't know how you could come to any other conclusion about crimea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Can you prove he didn't? Really, whether he said it or not doesn't matter. Actions speak louder than words, and Putin's actions have already betrayed his imperialist desires



    Moral Equivalency; the scourge of the world.

    Ukraine has never been a threat to Russia like Iraq was to the ME. We didn't annex territory and keep it for ourselves, oh wait, I mean land troops in plain clothes and force the population to "vote" for annexation. And when all was said and done, we left Iraq to the Iraqis, it's clear that Putin doesn't care what Ukrainians want. Bottom line, we went into Iraq to liberate it, Russia went into Ukraine to conquer.

    As far as NATO, do you really think the population of Europe would support a new war against Russia? Besides, we've learned the value of paper when Russia interfered in Ukraine's affair, which they agreed not to.
    They would have to support it if he attacked a NATO member.

    And the analogy about Iraq is just about invading another sovereign nation unprovoked. Assad is/was a brutal dictator, he does not have the arms Saddam had and therefore didn't try the same madness, but he is certainly a extreme threat to his ppl... Should we topple him? How about any of the other extremely militaristic and barbaric dictators in the ME should we go topple them?

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    Re: Putin threatens wwIII? or just more propaganda?

    Quote Originally Posted by b_dubz View Post
    So their alleging in a private meeting putin threatened to invade not only Kiev, but multiple other NATO states... Frankly I think its bs (I don't think he said this, as it would hurt him in negotiations) this would certainly ignite wwIII and I don't think he's that crazy...

    What do you think?

    Vladimir Putin Threatens World War 3, Says Russia Could Invade Europe Within Two Days
    Putin is an authoritarian war criminal guilty not only of the illegal annexation of sovereign Ukrainian territory through offensive military conquest in overt violation of the laws and customs of war but he is, also, guilty of ethnic cleansing within the Crimea and South Ossettia, I would not be surprise in the slightest if he is making threats against greater Europe especially considering he has already threatened nuclear war over the Ukraine:

    http://www.newsweek.com/russia-has-t...inister-267842

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    Re: Putin threatens wwIII? or just more propaganda?

    Quote Originally Posted by b_dubz View Post
    Crimea wanted to be annexed, was a autonomous state inside of Ukraine, and was gifted to Ukraine in a grand act of imperialism by the Russians in the 50s against the majority of its peoples will... The rest of Ukrainian ppls wishes is unfortunately much less clear. If you watch Russian roulette on vice I don't know how you could come to any other conclusion about crimea.
    First of all, according to international law, the vast majority of the global community, the Crimean Constitution and the Constitution of Ukraine proper the Crimea is sovereign Ukrainian territory and both Constitutions require a national referendum in which all Ukrainians are allowed to participate in if territorial changes are to be made. Furthermore; the referendum was an overt war crime, it was conducted through a Russian Spec Ops installed government who were hold up in the Kiev Parliament holding Rocket Launchers and AK's during a swearing in ceremony for their so called "Prime Minister" and likewise it was conducted not only through an occupation government but through an illegal foreign military occupation as well, and the 97 Percent yay vote for secession was laughable as were the choices give IE there was no choice to maintain the status quo but only to either join Russia or be independent.
    Last edited by face, your; 09-26-14 at 12:07 AM.

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    Re: Putin threatens wwIII? or just more propaganda?

    Quote Originally Posted by b_dubz View Post
    That's my point isn't it. He did not say it in public. Their is no record of him saying. Just other ppl with a vested interest in making him look crazy saying he did.a
    Yes your point seems to be that several respected publications are all in on a conspiracy against po wittle Putin.

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    Re: Putin threatens wwIII? or just more propaganda?

    Quote Originally Posted by b_dubz View Post
    So their alleging in a private meeting putin threatened to invade not only Kiev, but multiple other NATO states... Frankly I think its bs (I don't think he said this, as it would hurt him in negotiations) this would certainly ignite wwIII and I don't think he's that crazy...

    What do you think?

    Vladimir Putin Threatens World War 3, Says Russia Could Invade Europe Within Two Days
    "The 80's called and want their foreign policy back." quote the Idiot in Chief.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

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    Re: Putin threatens wwIII? or just more propaganda?

    Quote Originally Posted by face, your View Post
    Yes your point seems to be that several respected publications are all in on a conspiracy against po wittle Putin.
    No I hate Putin. I just like facts, and this seems unfactual. These party's that said this have a vested interest in making him look bad... Not that he needs much help but still...

    Lord knows Russia and the usa are cranking out propaganda at a alarming rate...

    If you dont believe me, do you believe Gallup? In 2013 the country was basically split down the middle.

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/167927/cr....aspx?ref=more

    I think it still is... That's all...

    Quote Originally Posted by face, your View Post
    Putin is an authoritarian war criminal guilty not only of the illegal annexation of sovereign Ukrainian territory through offensive military conquest in overt violation of the laws and customs of war but he is, also, guilty of ethnic cleansing within the Crimea and South Ossettia, I would not be surprise in the slightest if he is making threats against greater Europe especially considering he has already threatened nuclear war over the Ukraine:

    http://www.newsweek.com/russia-has-t...inister-267842
    Ethnic cleansing? Proof? The Washington post disagrees http://www.washingtonpost.com/postev...-doesnt-exist/

    Quote Originally Posted by face, your View Post
    First of all, according to international law, the vast majority of the global community, the Crimean Constitution and the Constitution of Ukraine proper the Crimea is sovereign Ukrainian territory and both Constitutions require a national referendum in which all Ukrainians are allowed to participate in if territorial changes are to be made. Furthermore; the referendum was an overt war crime, it was conducted through a Russian Spec Ops installed government who were hold up in the Kiev Parliament holding Rocket Launchers and AK's during a swearing in ceremony for their so called "Prime Minister" and likewise it was conducted not only through an occupation government but through an illegal foreign military occupation as well, and the 97 Percent yay vote for secession was laughable as were the choices give IE there was no choice to maintain the status quo but only to either join Russia or be independent.
    The 97% vote is laughable and the Tatars all abstained. Theirs 300,000 of em vs 2.5 mill Crimean's total however and frankly I still think they would have chosen to secede.

    This sums up what I think happened in a nutshell.

    [QUOTE =]there is little evidence in the report to suggest that Crimea's Russian-speaking majority would have voted any differently if conditions were less threatening to dissidents. But Simonovic's findings underscore the heavy-handed efforts used to influence the outcome of the referendum, as well as the personal risks faced by those making the case for remaining part of Ukraine.[/QUOTE]

    http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/po...secession_vote

    Keep in mind Russians are 58% of the pop their, and all almost certainly would vote to rejoin Russia. Some Ukrainians are Russian leaning as well, although not many. It certainly should not have been a landslide, but they probably would have won...

    America's constitution was founded on lies and propaganda to serve the rich. Most around the world followed it and therefore serve the same purpose. Both america and russia are oligarchy's... I care allot more about what ppl think, not stupid laws that were made to keep the rich rich and poor poor. I believe in direct democracy and think regardless of Russia's actions crimea would have voted this way. (Although it would have been close.)

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    Re: Putin threatens wwIII? or just more propaganda?

    Quote Originally Posted by b_dubz View Post
    No I hate Putin. I just like facts, and this seems unfactual. These party's that said this have a vested interest in making him look bad... Not that he needs much help but still...
    Who are these parties? The Telegraph and several other respected publications?
    The United Nations Human Rights investigators disagree with you:


    The United Nations refugee agency has reported that more than 34,000 Ukrainians have been displaced. Most were from Crimea, where people who speak Ukrainian or do not want to change their nationality to Russian face discrimination and intimidation, Mr. Magazzeni said.

    “They are mostly concerned about security: people report staying in cellars to keep away from the fighting, facing harassment at checkpoints and fearing the increasingly common abductions, threats and extortion,” the monitors reported.


    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/19/wo...aine.html?_r=0

    So ya the Crimea has been ethnically cleansed under the illegal Russian occupation.

    The 97% vote is laughable and the Tatars all abstained. Theirs 300,000 of em vs 2.5 mill Crimean's total however and frankly I still think they would have chosen to secede.

    This sums up what I think happened in a nutshell.
    A) Do you not understand the concept that the Crimean Constitution clearly states that it is sovereign Ukrainian territory and their laws do not supercede that of the Kiev government or Constitution which clearly states that any territorial changes to the Ukraine can only be brought about through a NATIONAL referendum in which all Ukrainians get a vote.

    B) This was not a legal cessation it was a annexation, the referendum was held through a foreign installed occupation government under a foreign occupation, it was no more legitimate than the ceding of territory from France to Nazi Germany through the Vichy government.

    C) International law is not on your or the war criminals Putin's side and neither is the vast majority of the international community which voted overwhelming in the UNGA to declare the referendum illegitimate and to condemn it:

    United Nations General Assembly Resolution 68/262 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    D) The only reason why the UNSC did not pass this resolution is because Russia used their permanent member status to veto it, even China abstained:

    UNSC Resolution on Crimea Blocked

    Keep in mind Russians are 58% of the pop their, and all almost certainly would vote to rejoin Russia. Some Ukrainians are Russian leaning as well, although not many. It certainly should not have been a landslide, but they probably would have won...
    So in your world if large hispanic heavy communities in the California, Texas, Arizona, etc voted to secede to Mexico you would call it legitimate even if they hold a bare majority? Utter rubbish this was a violation of both the Crimean and Ukrainian Constitutions, it was a violation of international law namely the prohibition of acquisition of territory through military conquest:

    War of aggression - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    America's constitution was founded on lies and propaganda to serve the rich. Most around the world followed it and therefore serve the same purpose. Both america and russia are oligarchy's... I care allot more about what ppl think, not stupid laws that were made to keep the rich rich and poor poor. I believe in direct democracy and think regardless of Russia's actions crimea would have voted this way. (Although it would have been close.)
    Well I'm glad you think that a referendum conducted by an occupation government under a foreign occupation for annexation into the occupying nation is legitimate; fortunately the Geneva Conventions and International Community disagrees with you, the Crimea is occupied sovereign Ukrainian territory, it is not a debate it is the law.
    Last edited by face, your; 09-26-14 at 03:48 AM.

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