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Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum[W:234]

sangha said:
learn-gun-safety-with-eagle-eddy.png
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tell me, would you not favor kids being taught that they have a right to free speech, and protest?

since bearing a firearm is also a right, should we not teach kids that right also, and how to be responsible in exercising that right.
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

jet57 said:
I saw all that. You said it wasn't a labor dispute. I showed you that it was.
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Do you have any idea what a "labor dispute" is by definition? Obviously not. The colonists didn't work for the British. A labor dispute is a disagreement between employees and their employer.

Once again, what caused the Boston Massacre is in the post I posted from your very same link. It wasn't a labor dispute, and it wasn't a civil protest. It was a brawl.

Just stop now.
 
CriticalThought said:
Item 1: Do not censor or distort historical textbooks to promote a particular political ideology of right wing nationalism that ignores the mistakes the United States has made and which encourages unquestioning deference to authority rather than acknowledging the positive changes that have occurred due to civil unrest and protest.

Will that suffice?
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No.

I'm looking for exact, real examples. ie; ISBN and page number.
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

The protests are aimed at new JeffCo School Board member Julie Williams’ proposal, which states, in part: “Materials should promote citizenship, patriotism, essentials and benefits of the free enterprise system, respect for authority and respect for individual rights.

Materials should not encourage or condone civil disorder, social strife or disregard of the law. Instructional materials should present positive aspects of the United States and its heritage.”
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/Sounds like the JeffCo school board wants kids obedient and mind-numb. Thank god the kids have enough active brain cells to challenge this elected hack.
 
ernst barkmann said:
tell me, would you not favor kids being taught that they have a right to free speech, and protest?

since bearing a firearm is also a right, should we not teach kids that right also, and how to be responsible in exercising that right.
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Practice free speech and protest versus taking loaded Uzis to class...that is a hard one. Why can't kids do both?
 
1750Texan said:
Practice free speech and protest versus taking loaded Uzis to class...that is a hard one. Why can't kids do both?
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this is unreal, to even make such a statement..

if you notice the idea is to teach responablity in exercising a right.

when you exercise a right.....you should always be responsible even in using free speech.
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

tres borrachos said:
Do you have any idea what a "labor dispute" is by definition? Obviously not. The colonists didn't work for the British. A labor dispute is a disagreement between employees and their employer.

Once again, what caused the Boston Massacre is in the post I posted from your very same link. It wasn't a labor dispute, and it wasn't a civil protest. It was a brawl.

Just stop now.
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Oh god.

Working people demonstrating against what they think is unfair in their labor is a labor dispute. I spent 30 years in the Teamsters Union, so yes, I have a general idea what a labor dispute is... (jeez).... that's why I so so labled that demonstration against English soldiers undercutting the rope workers wages and the general demonstration against impressment.

The brawl started at the rope worker's demonstration: as I recall, the workers had armed themselves with clubs.

Read a little; get a grip.
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

I know a lot of Jacks... :shrug:

Mr.Nick said:
How the **** do you know?

You dont know jack Jack....
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Protesting war is disrespecting the US?

And look at the facts, the Bush Administration grew the government and the right wing cheerleaders happily supported all of it.

tres borrachos said:
You seriously have no idea what the difference is between being for small government and disrespecting the United States?
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Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

jet57 said:
Oh god.

Working people demonstrating against what they think is unfair in their labor is a labor dispute. I spent 30 years in the Teamsters Union, so yes, I have a general idea what a labor dispute is... (jeez).... that's why I so so labled that demonstration against English soldiers undercutting the rope workers wages and the general demonstration against impressment.

The brawl started at the rope worker's demonstration: as I recall, the workers had armed themselves with clubs.

Read a little; get a grip.
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One more time. The Boston Massacre was not a labor dispute. It was started for exactly the scenario that I originally explained, and without any links necessary on my part to relay to you the factual events of that night. You posted a link in response, which also contained the exact same information I had posted earlier.

The Boston Massacre was not a labor dispute. It was a brawl started by colonists needling the British soldiers. That is a fact you can't twist.

For a few posts, you didn't even know what you were posting about anyway. You're the same person who kept saying that Bunker Hill was a civil protest. Then when I corrected you, you said "oops I mean the Boston Massacre". There was no "demonstration" that night. It was a fight. Snowballs, muskets, etc. A civil demonstration by your earlier definition in this thread (in case you forgot) was that it was a non-violent form of protest. Do you realize that people died in Boston that night?

Even if the Massacre was a labor dispute - which it wasn't - it has no similarity to this thread subject anyway. The topic is kids demonstrating something. This isn't a labor dispute. It's closer to the historical account of the Boston Massacre than either a labor dispute or a civil protest. It's a bunch of kids looking to needle their school administration.
 
SheWolf said:
Protesting war is disrespecting the US?

And look at the facts, the Bush Administration grew the government and the right wing cheerleaders happily supported all of it.
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If you can find one mention of the word "war" in that post of mine you just copied, I'll send you a check for $1000.

If you want to address the right wing cheerleaders, you'll have to find them. I don't pass on information to those you're looking to address.
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

jet57 said:
Oh god. Working people demonstrating against what they think is unfair in their labor is a labor dispute. I spent 30 years in the Teamsters Union, so yes, I have a general idea what a labor dispute is... (jeez).... that's why I so so labled that demonstration against English soldiers undercutting the rope workers wages and the general demonstration against impressment.The brawl started at the rope worker's demonstration: as I recall, the workers had armed themselves with clubs. Read a little; get a grip.
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Would you prefer to call it "workplace violence"?
 
The school system in question should teach the constitution. I don't care how people show their patriotism. A concept like patriotism and how to practice it properly cannot be taught. The US government shouldn't always be supported. At times, the US should be protested. No government should be blindly followed and supported.

Haven't you ever heard the quote, "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag?" I am always weary of nationalism and labeling dissenting free speech as anti-American.

I don't understand why self proclaimed small government conservatives did the opposite under the Bush Admin.


tres borrachos said:
I didn't say anything about civil protests in my post, which was purely about the difference between being for small government (which isn't the same as "anti-government", and which most real conservatives advocate) and disrespecting the United States (the opposite of patriotism) . It was in response to a post that said this:

Why are conservatives trying to teach respect of authority and patriotism when they are anti government?

I don't advocate "fights". I advocate electing people who are smart enough to do the right thing, and agendas that don't bloat the government.
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tres borrachos said:
Okay, but Jerry's question is sort of a good one.

I've read a lot of posts in this thread about how neat and great it is that the students are protesting. I'd like to see something that shows they know exactly what it is that they're protesting. Specifics about what's being cut or added or censored, what specifically they object to, etc. From the students, I mean. I've not seen anything, and again having 3 high schoolers, I know they would jump at a chance to protest if it meant, as my eldest said, missing classes and pissing off the principal.
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I have 2 perspectives. 1-it's not students jobs to protest...it is students jobs to go to school, learn, shut up and color. We have completely screwed up the school process by telling students they have 'rights'. They don't. Sorry...that's just a fact.

But...

2-From what I have read, their parents should have protested the proposed changes. What was being proposed was not 'history' and was certainly agenda driven. They should not be teaching students what they should and should not feel or how they should or should not act...especially in a history class.

If anything, this issue underscores the need for active parent involvement in their students education experience. Even though I disagree with what the board member proposed, I would be grateful for the opportunity to engage via the PTA and school board meetings.
 
SheWolf said:
The school system in question should teach the constitution. I don't care how people show their patriotism. A concept like patriotism and how to practice it properly cannot be taught. The US government shouldn't always be supported. At times, the US should be protested. No government should be blindly followed and supported.

Haven't you ever heard the quote, "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag?" I am always weary of nationalism and labeling dissenting free speech as anti-American.

I don't understand why self proclaimed small government conservatives did the opposite under the Bush Admin.
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I don't know that the school system in question isn't teaching the Constitution. Nobody has put their full agenda up to see.

Can't help you with the issue of the small government conservatives under the Bush administration. You need to ask them.
 
j-mac said:
Give the authority for curriculum back to the local community, and get the Fed's out of education.
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I think government and government interests should have no place in education. However, I think the government should provide access and utility to education. It's important that our citizenry be educated. My boyfriend is working in the Middle East right now. It's poor and the people are extremely uneducated compared to western nations, and their governments are largely corrupt. I don't think the US should look like that. Our citizens should be literate, know basic science, know about modern medicine, and have plenty of doctors.
 
tres borrachos said:
I encourage you to stage a bloodless coup. I can't and won't.
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What?? How can you say something like this and also argue for "respect of authority?"

It looks to me like conservatives want and expect conservative authority respected. That is at least what I gather from conservative attitudes under the Bush Admin.

How dare you not support the president in a time of war...
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

tres borrachos said:
One more time. The Boston Massacre was not a labor dispute. It was started for exactly the scenario that I originally explained, and without any links necessary on my part to relay to you the factual events of that night. You posted a link in response, which also contained the exact same information I had posted earlier.

The Boston Massacre was not a labor dispute. It was a brawl started by colonists needling the British soldiers. That is a fact you can't twist.

For a few posts, you didn't even know what you were posting about anyway. You're the same person who kept saying that Bunker Hill was a civil protest. Then when I corrected you, you said "oops I mean the Boston Massacre". There was no "demonstration" that night. It was a fight. Snowballs, muskets, etc. A civil demonstration by your earlier definition in this thread (in case you forgot) was that it was a non-violent form of protest. Do you realize that people died in Boston that night?

Even if the Massacre was a labor dispute - which it wasn't - it has no similarity to this thread subject anyway. The topic is kids demonstrating something. This isn't a labor dispute. It's closer to the historical account of the Boston Massacre than either a labor dispute or a civil protest. It's a bunch of kids looking to needle their school administration.
Click to expand...

The shooting started where the labor dispute as going on. The English and the public had been having nothing but problems for some time, so it was just a a matter of time. I showed you very clearly where I derived my information from; nothing is being twisted.
 
ernst barkmann said:
respect for the law, means to obey law........you don't have to like the law, just observe it.
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I don't have to obey the law. I have a right to protest the law.

Rosa Parks didn't obey or respect the law, she fought against the law. It was the proper thing to do.
 
SheWolf said:
What?? How can you say something like this and also argue for "respect of authority?"

It looks to me like conservatives want and expect conservative authority respected. That is at least what I gather from conservative attitudes under the Bush Admin.

How dare you not support the president in a time of war...
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That's nice. Why don't you post this to conservatives and people who don't support Obama's military actions right now.
 
VanceMack said:
I have 2 perspectives. 1-it's not students jobs to protest...it is students jobs to go to school, learn, shut up and color. We have completely screwed up the school process by telling students they have 'rights'. They don't. Sorry...that's just a fact.

But...

2-From what I have read, their parents should have protested the proposed changes. What was being proposed was not 'history' and was certainly agenda driven. They should not be teaching students what they should and should not feel or how they should or should not act...especially in a history class.

If anything, this issue underscores the need for active parent involvement in their students education experience. Even though I disagree with what the board member proposed, I would be grateful for the opportunity to engage via the PTA and school board meetings.
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That is a great point Vance.
 
SheWolf said:
I think government and government interests should have no place in education. However, I think the government should provide access and utility to education. It's important that our citizenry be educated. My boyfriend is working in the Middle East right now. It's poor and the people are extremely uneducated compared to western nations, and their governments are largely corrupt. I don't think the US should look like that. Our citizens should be literate, know basic science, know about modern medicine, and have plenty of doctors.
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So, before the Federal government was involved we didn't educate our children? Take a good look at common core, and tell me that their involvement helps anything?
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

jet57 said:
The shooting started where the labor dispute as going on. The English and the public had been having nothing but problems for some time, so it was just a a matter of time. I showed you very clearly where I derived my information from; nothing is being twisted.
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Labor dispute going on? Matter of time? Huh?

One more time. The Boston Massacre started because a British guard hit a colonist over the head with a musket. It wasn't a civil protest, and it wasn't non-violent.
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

TeleKat said:
Hey AW :2wave:

I agree...that's ridiculous. Unfortunately school textbooks almost always have some sort of agenda, especially in regards to US history. That's why I tend to be leery of public schools these days. I understand the need for them, I do, but I hope that we can phase out of needing them sometime in the future. I think government-run education is dangerous.
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A Koch Brothers funded private school would be even more dangerous.
 
SheWolf said:
I don't have to obey the law. I have a right to protest the law.

Rosa Parks didn't obey or respect the law, she fought against the law. It was the proper thing to do.
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no you don't have to obey the law, you can go to jail, however respect for authority is obeying law, and it should be taught, or do you favor people flaunting the law.

Rosa parks fought injustice in law making, she was being denied a "privilege" of government, cause no one has a right to ride a bus.

the 14th amendment states one state shall deny citiznes privileges it grants to other citiznes, unless it in the interest of the state...the government against her was wrong in its actions.
 
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