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Thread: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum[W:234]

  1. #681
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    Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum[W:234]

    lol... your challenge is non sequitur. People have right to protest and disobey whatever form of government they choose to protest and disobey. Neither you nor I get to play the thought police in terms of deciding what, where, and when people get to disobey and protest.

    As for your philosophical definition of rights and protest, it is meaningless to this discussion. Without government there is no recognition of rights. I don't accept Natural Rights Philosophy as a logical explanation of the world or a sociological explanation of recorded and substantive human behavior. We know a lot more about ancient humans and human life prior to modern concepts of government and economic fairness than we did in the time of Enlightenment Thinkers.

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    you say you want to teach the constitution, now explain to me what is being taught..... to blindly do.

    Rosa parks protested authority she did not turn to violate action, the Boston tea party was not a protest, because it involved the destruction of property, nothing can be a protest if it violates property, because protesting is a right, nothing can be a right which involves the destruction, stealing, cheating of property.

    please state for me, laws, governments, authority which you should not obey.

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    Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Well, the answer is right here (from your link in post #2):



    This is one of those Koch-inspired politically ploys I outlined earlier... attack and overcome from within. Similar to ALEC in application, they distribute this boilerplate stuff from state to state, getting it passed/implemented wherever they can (read: Red states). Williams is most likely a clueless pawn, just doing what her handlers tell her to. She may not even know what is in the proposal she submitted; my suspicion is that it was most likely provided to her. For anyone familiar with current events over the past few years (or maybe as far back as the past decade) the Texas B of E has also been involved in rewriting textbooks to be more 'patriotic' and less inclusive of 'bad things'.



    The Heritage foundation and the "Atlantic triangular trade". OMG.
    Yes, I posted about that earlier in the thread. In my post, I quoted a school board member referring to the TX school board's action in a flattering way
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum[W:234]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Granted the course is history in this case, but would you consider an adequate education in which the educator continuously upholds the notion that each idea is to be held with equal value and that when the students graduated, they should be no more intellectually able to subscribe to capitalism, democracy, the necessity to follow laws, and so on as they would to embrace anarchy and totalitarianism? Should racism and genocide be held to equal representation of worthwhile ideologies and tactics?
    I would love to believe that educators had the integrity to offer students the opportunity to explore history without projecting bias. I think 'history' indicates many teachers arent capable of that, and that is truly a shame. I think it is very valuable to study the entire historical perspective of pre and post war WW1 Germany to gain a better understanding of how someone like Adolph Hitler can rise to prominence and power. I think it is valuable to understand slavery as it existed in all its varying forms. The study of racism? Great...study a historical perspective of race and racism...that would be an eye opener. As I have said earlier in this thread...my best professors have been those that challenged people to study and explore all different perspectives...not just the one they agree with.

    I dont want to see a teacher attempting to indoctrinate from a liberal slant any more than a conservative charter school English instructor assigning critical analysis of scripture from the bible.

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    Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum[W:234]

    Quote Originally Posted by GBFAN View Post
    You're exactly right ... to a point. Some have a hereditary interest in Native American history. But, most assuredly, understanding the Native American communities was necessary to prove proper perspective to the interactions between whites and Indians. That is exactly the point of the school board ... instead of simply holding Wounded Knee up as an example of the white atrocities, and demeaning white aggression, there should be a corresponding discussion of the New Ulm Massacre and Native American aggression. We should have enough faith in our teenagers that they are able to assimilate ALL the facts and make an appropriate judgement, rather than using the class to further political aims.

    All that notwithstanding, though, the use of the students as negotiating pawns in the labor discussions by the teachers' union is unconscionable.
    Claims we should teach more about Native American history

    Links article which complains that the new curriculum spends too much time on Native American history.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

    Quote Originally Posted by GBFAN View Post
    Nope -- didn't say that at all ... the report was referenced in previous posts [...]
    I asked you for directions to one of those previous posts and you did not reply.

    I now ask you again. What post?

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl, in post #649 View Post
    Where's the report on the liberal "censoring, massaging, and manipulating" of the current curriculum? (there's 647 posts in this thread, if you're going to task others with formulating your argument for you then you need to at least point them to the material).

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    Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    I asked you for directions to one of those previous posts and you did not reply.

    I now ask you again. What post?
    Not my job, mon .... you be needin' to do your own lookin'.
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    Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum[W:234]

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I would love to believe that educators had the integrity to offer students the opportunity to explore history without projecting bias. I think 'history' indicates many teachers arent capable of that, and that is truly a shame. I think it is very valuable to study the entire historical perspective of pre and post war WW1 Germany to gain a better understanding of how someone like Adolph Hitler can rise to prominence and power. I think it is valuable to understand slavery as it existed in all its varying forms. The study of racism? Great...study a historical perspective of race and racism...that would be an eye opener. As I have said earlier in this thread...my best professors have been those that challenged people to study and explore all different perspectives...not just the one they agree with.

    I dont want to see a teacher attempting to indoctrinate from a liberal slant any more than a conservative charter school English instructor assigning critical analysis of scripture from the bible.

    Finally ... a sane voice in the wilderness.

    Feel lonely much?
    We're born alone, we live alone, we die alone. Only through our love and friendship can we create the illusion for the moment that we're not alone.
    - Orson Welles

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    Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum[W:234]

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    I am concerned with access to quality education versus the government censoring or teaching children propaganda.
    I too am concerned with that, only now what we have is nearly a one sided vision of what is "proper" version of what America is and how we came to be. For instance right now, you have Ward Churchill writing a book that he hopes to get into the curriculum of our school system...Ward 'freakin' Churchill. We have Bill Ayres sitting on a board that decides what is acceptable in these curriculum in our schools...A man that said he wished he'd have gotten to bomb more....And we have the very same people that were railing about Bush tampering with education with his program, are now coming up with the most utterly confusing way of teaching kids imaginable in common core...

    And now they get all bent when conservatives that are concerned, that they know best and the conservatives should just let them handle it...NO! not any more! Liberals own the education system in this country, and are responsible for the decline in our children's knowledge today, and the way we are losing in the education race in the world.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

    Quote Originally Posted by GBFAN View Post
    Not my job, mon .... you be needin' to do your own lookin'.
    Then we will have to conclude that the report you were urging others to read does not exist.

    Debate tip: In your situation (imminent fail) I would have ignored my post... you don't have to reply to every one

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    Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum[W:234]

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    I still don't understand what you are saying. We shouldn't protest in the US, because other countries have it worse?

    I have lived in foreign countries. My family immigrated to the US, and my grandmother escaped genocide. Most of my friends and my fiancé are not what many people would consider "fully assimilated." I may one day live in one of those bad Middle Eastern countries for half the year and it will be my second home.

    I care a lot about freedom, because most of the people I know living in the US came here for it. I am not suggesting we teach children the US is crap and a bad place to live. I am saying that we teach children the constitution and value of personal freedom, free speech, freedom of religion, etc. People are going to protest the government, even when you support what the government is doing. Get over it. What really matter really's is the US doesn't murder or torture people for protesting the government.

    I don't care if these kids know what they are protesting or not. That isn't the point. People may use their freedom of speech to promote ideas and speech they later regret. US law doesn't protect people from making mistakes or regrets.
    When did I say we shouldn't protest in the US? Hint - I never did.

    And who said people didn't have the right to free speech in this country? Hint #2 - not me.
    .
    "patriotism crap" - your words, not mine. You said that you think teaching patriotism is crap.

    I asked you before and I'll ask again. How do you know that they don't teach about the Constitution? How do you know that the revised curriculum didn't include teaching about the Constitution? Where is your proof that the teaching about the Constitution was shelved?

    If you don't know if these kids know what they're protesting or not, then how could you possibly have any opinion on whether they are doing something good or not?

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