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Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum[W:234]

Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

Tettsuo said:
Like what exactly?

I ask because I don't believe that's true. In fact, I believe opposite is true. The simple fact that Columbus is celebrated is evidence of this.
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Like the school board, those who claim these kids were being taught that American is bad can not and will not provide any specific evidence that it is true
 
CriticalThought said:
All my college history professors were ultra liberal and assigned incredibly biased books to read. I would just read the chapter titles and write what I knew the professors wanted to hear and I do not think I ever got less than a 95% on a paper.
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I think professors like that are the catalyst for the proposed changes offered by the conservative school board member. Its probably a worthwhile discussion to have to point out and eliminate ALL of the instructor bias. Liberal bias is no less repugnant than a proposed conservative bias.
 
VanceMack said:
I think professors like that are the catalyst for the proposed changes offered by the conservative school board member. Its probably a worthwhile discussion to have to point out and eliminate ALL of the instructor bias. Liberal bias is no less repugnant than a proposed conservative bias.
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Discuss? Yes. Moderate? Yes. Eliminate? Absolute folly.
 
VanceMack said:
I think professors like that are the catalyst for the proposed changes offered by the conservative school board member. Its probably a worthwhile discussion to have to point out and eliminate ALL of the instructor bias. Liberal bias is no less repugnant than a proposed conservative bias.
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What liberal bias?

Again, I ask because I don't see the so-called blatant liberal bias so many conservatives are complaining about.
 
I favor teaching the constitution and the philosophical concept of individual freedom and liberty. I disfavor teaching children to blindly obey authoritative structures.

Not only did Rosa Parks protest, the Boston Tea Party was a protest. The American Revolution was blatant disregard for British authority.

Not all laws, governments, and forms of authority should be obeyed and trusted. If you study history it becomes obvious.

ernst barkmann said:
no you don't have to obey the law, you can go to jail, however respect for authority is obeying law, and it should be taught, or do you favor people flaunting the law.

Rosa parks fought injustice in law making, she was being denied a "privilege" of government, cause no one has a right to ride a bus.

the 14th amendment states one state shall deny citiznes privileges it grants to other citiznes, unless it in the interest of the state...the government against her was wrong in its actions.
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I brought it up my first quote which you responded to... :roll:

I am simply stating my opinion on the Bush Admin and it's conservative supporters, and you seem to be taking my comments personally for reasons beyond my understanding.

tres borrachos said:
Well, considering you keep bringing up the Bush administration and conservatives, I have no idea who you're posting to, since I mentioned neither.
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Fiddytree said:
Discuss? Yes. Moderate? Yes. Eliminate? Absolute folly.
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The Jefferson County school district already has a committe that reviews the curriculum. However, unlike the one this new school board created, its' members were not handpicked by the 3 new members of the school board.
 
sangha said:
The Jefferson County school district already has a committe that reviews the curriculum. However, unlike the one this new school board created, its' members were not handpicked by the 3 new members of the school board.
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I was in particular referring to Vance's suggestion that we could somehow craft a historical narrative that was not influenced by scholar's biases, be they conservative, moderate, liberal, socialist, or postmodern.
 
SheWolf said:
I favor teaching the constitution and the philosophical concept of individual freedom and liberty. I disfavor teaching children to blindly obey authoritative structures.

Not only did Rosa Parks protest, the Boston Tea Party was a protest. The American Revolution was blatant disregard for British authority.

Not all laws, governments, and forms of authority should be obeyed and trusted. If you study history it becomes obvious.
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Comparing these kids to Rosa Parks or the American Revolution is another sign of how the US education system has so sharply declined.
 
Fiddytree said:
I was in particular referring to Vance's suggestion that we could somehow craft a historical narrative that was not influenced by scholar's biases, be they conservative, moderate, liberal, socialist, or postmodern.
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Yes, I realize that. I was just informing you about the details of this specific case.

And maybe you can ask Vance why the experience some anonymous internet poster had with a liberal college professor would have anything to do with why these conservative school board members want to change the curriculum? Shouldn't that be decided on the school's curriculum (which the people who complain about its' liberal bias have yet to post any evidence to support)?
 
Grant said:
Comparing these kids to Rosa Parks or the American Revolution is another sign of how the US education system has so sharply declined.
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She wasn't in that instance comparing Rosa Parks to this student-teacher protest. She was referring to the desired guidelines which would attempt to apparently cultivate students to neither condone not encourage civil disobedience and questioning of authorities.

Frankly, even though an ancestor of mine was a prominent figure of the bunch, I haven't much respect for the Sons of Liberty specifically because of their terrorizing democratic excesses and juvenile protests. Yet, I sense that conservatives love these overgrown children of the past simply because we institutionalized a glorification of these nuisances.

This and many other instances of civil disobedience and questioning of authority make such public declarations lacking in thought.
 
I still don't understand what you are saying. We shouldn't protest in the US, because other countries have it worse?

I have lived in foreign countries. My family immigrated to the US, and my grandmother escaped genocide. Most of my friends and my fiancé are not what many people would consider "fully assimilated." I may one day live in one of those bad Middle Eastern countries for half the year and it will be my second home.

I care a lot about freedom, because most of the people I know living in the US came here for it. I am not suggesting we teach children the US is crap and a bad place to live. I am saying that we teach children the constitution and value of personal freedom, free speech, freedom of religion, etc. People are going to protest the government, even when you support what the government is doing. Get over it. What really matter really's is the US doesn't murder or torture people for protesting the government.

I don't care if these kids know what they are protesting or not. That isn't the point. People may use their freedom of speech to promote ideas and speech they later regret. US law doesn't protect people from making mistakes or regrets.


tres borrachos said:
Your first post which I quoted said this:

Why are conservatives trying to teach respect of authority and patriotism when they are anti government?

I have noticed that they obey and follow authority and government leadership when it's conservative. For example, I remember Fox News screaming at Bush Admin protestors as being "unAmerican." But if you're antigovernment or small government, shouldn't you be critical of all forms of government? It doesn't make sense to me.

I suspect the patriotism crap they hope to teach is anti-immigrant or "real America" indoctrination too. BS.

You don't seem to understand that true conservatives want small government, which is not the same thing as "anti-government". Someone who is anti-government is an anarchists, and conservatives aren't anarchists.

You also refer to patriotism as "crap". Do you think people should be taught that the United States is a bad country? It isn't. Try living in Somalia for a while, or Israel, or Colombia, or Zimbabwe. Nothing wrong with teaching kids that this is a good country. My children are the descendants of immigrants who came here for a better life - and found it.

The actions of our military right now have no bearing on this discussion. The kids here who protested in all likelihood have no idea what they are protesting about. I'm also going to venture a guess that the adults posting in support of the high schoolers also have no idea what's being protested. Nobody has seen any detailed agenda.
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I am concerned with access to quality education versus the government censoring or teaching children propaganda.


j-mac said:
"A previous Department of Education was created in 1867 but was soon demoted to an Office in 1868.[3][4] As an agency not represented in the president's cabinet, it quickly became a relatively minor bureau in the Department of the Interior. In 1939, the bureau was transferred to the Federal Security Agency, where it was renamed the Office of Education. In 1953, the Federal Security Agency was upgraded to cabinet-level status as the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare.
In 1979, President Carter advocated for creating a cabinet-level Department of Education.[5]"

United States Department of Education - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Before Carter, it was a minor part in American Education....Now look what they have become in 30 short years.

And I don't believe that we will stop educating our youth should the responsibility be turned over to the states, or even the local communities.
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I am not comparing these kids to anybody. I am simply stating why I disagree with the concept of teaching anybody to follow and obey authoritative structures within the government.

Grant said:
Comparing these kids to Rosa Parks or the American Revolution is another sign of how the US education system has so sharply declined.
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Tettsuo said:
What liberal bias?

Again, I ask because I don't see the so-called blatant liberal bias so many conservatives are complaining about.
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Ask the person I was responding to that very clearly stated his college professors all offered a liberal bias (noting that the person that made that comment is himself rather 'liberal').
 
Mr.Nick said:
You do realize both the French and Indians fought on behalf of the revolutionaries?

You know nothing about history...

Despite what you were taught when you were 7 - the revolutionaries smoked the British.....
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Are you wrong? Let me count the ways ....
 
I see the magnitude of the historical ignorance displayed in this thread, and I truly wonder why anybody would object to creating a valid history curriculum. Clearly, we've been deficient, based on testimony here, for several years.
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

sangha said:
So you support the school boards call to indoctrinate the students with patriotism because you oppose indoctrination!! :lamo
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WOW! Do you ever not fail to make any sense? Every one of the articles advocates education over indoctrination, and every one of the articles provides examples of indoctrination triumphing over education. Unlike the left, I believe our children are smart enough to figure out what was good and bad ... I don't believe the information fed them needs to be censored, massaged, and manipulated.

Read the references -- clearly, you haven't. Because, if you had, you would see one of them advocates for your nonsense. I guess you can't actually be bothered to get educated, can you?
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

GBFAN said:
... I don't believe the information fed them needs to be censored, massaged, and manipulated.
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Which is why you support this school boards attempt to censor, massage and manipulate the curriculum
 
VanceMack said:
Indoctrination is fine...as long as they promote MY point of view!
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I have yet to find a single person in this thread who doesn't actually feel that way, you included. It doesn't take long to sort it out, you know.
 
sangha said:
Yes, I realize that. I was just informing you about the details of this specific case.

And maybe you can ask Vance why the experience some anonymous internet poster had with a liberal college professor would have anything to do with why these conservative school board members want to change the curriculum? Shouldn't that be decided on the school's curriculum (which the people who complain about its' liberal bias have yet to post any evidence to support)?
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Maybe YOU could just read my comments which have been extraordinarily critical of said school board member, rather just doing your usual routine. I am and always have been an advocate of removing slant and bias from education.
 
Fiddytree said:
I have yet to find a single person in this thread who doesn't actually feel that way, you included. It doesn't take long to sort it out, you know.
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Sorry...I dont want conservative OR liberal bias in the presentation of education. I've consistently said as much. The best professors and educators I have had always challenged an individuals perspective and allowed them to see all sides.
 
Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

sangha said:
Which is why you support this school boards attempt to censor, massage and manipulate the curriculum
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Once again, you prove no knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Had you bothered to actually read the report, you would see that the school board is attempting to remove the results of censoring, massaging, and manipulating the curriculm.

Look it up.
 
VanceMack said:
Maybe YOU could just read my comments which have been extraordinarily critical of said school board member, rather just doing your usual routine. I am and always have been an advocate of removing slant and bias from education.
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i never said you were not critical of this. I criticized your claim that this school board member was motivated by liberal college professors
VanceMack said:
I think professors like that are the catalyst for the proposed changes offered by the conservative school board member.
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