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Thread: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum[W:234]

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    Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    Then why have school at all? Let's just let kids learn on their own, without the necessity for schools or teachers or textbooks or tests. Your answer to propaganda posing as education is to 'let them learn after school'?
    Not instead of, but in addition to. It's not a one or the other sort of thing. But if you are in HS and feel your coursework isn't providing the whole picture, you're in luck. We're smack dab in the middle of the information age where you have free access to dissenting material.

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    Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    I'll read the details in a short bit, but I must make it known that "just the facts" history doesn't actually exist, including public school curriculum. Over the past 20 years, for instance, there has been a rise in countering some of what historians would consider the liberal/conservative consensus in the post-war 20th century. The relatively recent (but still about 20 years) narrative has been that the United States history is about a constant revaluation of how it can fulfill its promise. This has been more about cultural pluralism, minority status, and civil rights activism than it had in the past.

    That's a narrative choice, bore from more than "just the facts."

    Now, broadly speaking, instilling patriotism, hardly a unique and detrimental aspect of existing public school social studies, is a good thing.

    After that, respect for authority, also not unique and detrimental in existing public school social studies, is a good thing.

    Downplaying the desirability of civil disobedience, while I am personally sympathetic toward that idea, is not really appropriate. I think at most we can bring forth the idea that civil disobedience is an inherently controversial tactic (thus entertaining why the tactics themselves may be seen as wrong, just as you would entertain why they are seen as right or justified).

    That being said, these are slogans, and hopefully I could find what the standards actually say and perhaps a comparison with prior standards. Much of the time, I have a hard time believing that patriotism, respect for authority, and an examination of controversial ideas are not allowed or are not somehow a mainstay of the existing instruction.
    You can believe it when the faculty and administration are fully indoctrinated in political correctness, leftwing ideology, and embrace socialist/Marxist theology including rejection of all nationalism and pride in country. I find it hard to believe that those kids read those textbooks and concluded on their own that the content was unacceptable to them. I am pretty sure they were guided and encouraged in rejecting and protesting them.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    You can believe it when the faculty and administration are fully indoctrinated in political correctness, leftwing ideology, and embrace socialist/Marxist theology including rejection of all nationalism and pride in country. I find it hard to believe that those kids read those textbooks and concluded on their own that the content was unacceptable to them. I am pretty sure they were guided and encouraged in rejecting and protesting them.
    And how, exactly, did you come to that conclusion?

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    Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

    Quote Originally Posted by TeleKat View Post
    And how, exactly, did you come to that conclusion?
    Because HS students generally don't know **** about what their school board is deciding about curriculum unless some adult calls it to their attention. Typically with words such as, "Do you see the terrible thing they are trying to do to you?".

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    Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    You can believe it when the faculty and administration are fully indoctrinated in political correctness, leftwing ideology, and embrace socialist/Marxist theology including rejection of all nationalism and pride in country. I find it hard to believe that those kids read those textbooks and concluded on their own that the content was unacceptable to them. I am pretty sure they were guided and encouraged in rejecting and protesting them.
    Political correctness exists in this country, regardless of who is ensuring it. It is a method not isolated to any particular ideology or creed. After all, socialists and communists have experienced it for decades in the United States.

    Now, in terms of Marxism's influence on the field of history, that is to be accepted. Even conservatives have been influenced by it. It's part of the discipline, and while it has its weaknesses (just like most other models), it has been useful. Now, if you are suggesting students are being asked to join the revolution, I highly doubt it.

    Indoctrination is a benign process of public schools. I, for one, want a public school to indoctrinate students to embrace benign nationalism, and think it relatively reasonable to have government-sponsored schools do that. Indoctrination is part of school. What is under dispute is what form of indoctrination to employ.

    As for the students participating in the protests, I do not doubt that they were somehow influenced by the words of adults, whether it was a teacher or if it were some of the parents. That's going to be unavoidable.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Conceptually, yes, but I think it is worth reminding people that public school history teaching is often inherently a somewhat conservative position. Unless you are encouraging students to read Howard Zinn, it is more likely you are attempting to balance the concerns of liberals and conservatives. You often avoid doing something which can cause a parent to complain, which tends to benefit the status-quo more than a progressive cause.
    That was not the impression that I got from my educational experience. There was a focus on the things that white Americans and other white people did wrong (slavery, segregation, the Holocaust). None of it was rose tinted or patriotic. Very little was taught about any other society doing anything wrong, largely because we learned very little about world history. Now that so many teachers have been taught "social justice" ideology in college, I imagine that it's even more liberal.

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    Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

    Quote Originally Posted by zoetherat View Post
    That was not the impression that I got from my educational experience. There was a focus on the things that white Americans and other white people did wrong (slavery, segregation, the Holocaust). None of it was rose tinted or patriotic. Very little was taught about any other society doing anything wrong, largely because we learned very little about world history. Now that so many teachers have been taught "social justice" ideology in college, I imagine that it's even more liberal.
    Did they reject the desirability of America's "promise"? Reject the principles of inclusive democracy? Reject the desirability of what people see as the country's ideals? Were you asked to revolt?
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

    Quote Originally Posted by TeleKat View Post
    And how, exactly, did you come to that conclusion?
    Because I have up close and working knowledge of school system, faculties, administrations, and school kids. And in my ever increasing long life, I have NEVER known school kids to read and object to a text book in that way unless they were somehow encouraged to do that.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Where do the standards call for censorship?
    In all fairness, the Board proposal does suggest a specific agenda.

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    Re: Hundreds of Colorado students protest history curriculum

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Political correctness exists in this country, regardless of who is ensuring it. It is a method not isolated to any particular ideology or creed. After all, socialists and communists have experienced it for decades in the United States.

    Now, in terms of Marxism's influence on the field of history, that is to be accepted. Even conservatives have been influenced by it. It's part of the discipline, and while it has its weaknesses (just like most other models), it has been useful. Now, if you are suggesting students are being asked to join the revolution, I highly doubt it.

    Indoctrination is a benign process of public schools. I, for one, want a public school to indoctrinate students to embrace benign nationalism, and think it relatively reasonable to have government-sponsored schools do that. Indoctrination is part of school. What is under dispute is what form of indoctrination to employ.

    As for the students participating in the protests, I do not doubt that they were somehow influenced by the words of adults, whether it was a teacher or if it were some of the parents. That's going to be unavoidable.
    Indoctrination is indeed part of the modern government-controlled and/or heavily controlled schools populated with faculty and administration who embrace at least components of Marxism. It is not inevitable as I grew up in public schools in which indoctrination was no part of the curriculum or teach methodology. We were exposed to ALL points of view on ALL issues and encouraged to think critically and draw our own conclusions. We were not told WHAT to think but rather HOW to think. Extending into college we were treated to speakers promoting Communism, McCarthyism, left, right, up, down, and everything in between. Other than what was considered vulgar or obscene, there was no topic that was off limits or promoted by our teachers in any way.

    THAT is what education is supposed to be. I can often remember this or that student standing up in class to protest some piece of information in a textbook and explaining why he/she thought it wrong. Sometimes those students were right. Sometimes not. But to organize and implement a walk out protest of textbook content? Just wouldn't have happened then. Shouldn't happen now.

    And I don't believe for a minute that the idea originated with those kids.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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