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US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria[W:354]

Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

It seems like we're throwing some very expensive Tomahawks at empty buildings. All the advance talk and Congress authorization and going on TV to say that we would pursue targets in Syria, just allowed ISIS to hide and merge with the local population, so that the strikes only minimally damaged them (some check points and training camps hits paid off more, but most command and control centers in urban areas that we hit were already empty, with the terrorists having moved elsewhere such as into civilian apartment buildings).

Airstrikes alone may not defeat Sunni militants

I mean, I really don't understand all the advance notice. What we should have done:

We should have reacted to the two beheadings of journalists and other ISIS atrocities and progression, with vague statements just condemning what they were doing and saying we were studying the situation. Some vague statements not by the President himself but by other officials should indicate that "we understand that public opinion in America is weary of long military commitments in the Middle East." ISIS fighters would be happily celebrating their advances and their command and control centers would be filled to the brink with happy militants.

Then we should suddenly strike with all the Tomahawks, bombers, and jet fighters unleashed simultaneously in Syria and Iraq against ISIS positions; in day time (while these command and control centers were populated, rather than waiting for the militants to go back to the places where they sleep).

So, what's up with tipping one's hand to the enemy?

This is one of the problems with the freaking idea that Congress declares war and needs to be consulted.

I think the President should be the one declaring war and taking immediate action. Or at the very least, if there is Congress consultation it should be absolutely secret and behind closed doors.

In war, the element of surprise is very important and is only possible once - so, the first strike was the time to kill the maximum number of ISIS high level commanders and important personnel.

By engaging in our endless and paralyzed political process, we gave to the enemy all the time to hide and avoid our bombs.

Great. We're spending millions in Tomahawk missiles to take down some empty buildings. What a smart strategy! :doh
 
You are incorrect, Obama lost the Peace and now must clean up the mess.

NOPE. He doesn't have to do anything, nor do the American taxpayers who didn't vote for the idiot that created the aforementioned mess w/his invasion plan.

The responsibility for cleaning it up belongs to the one who started it and those who put him in power, which would be Bush himself and well, people like you.
 
NOPE. He doesn't have to do anything, nor do the American taxpayers who didn't vote for the idiot that created the aforementioned mess w/his invasion plan.

The responsibility for cleaning it up belongs to the one who started it and those who put him in power, which would be Bush himself and well, people like you.

By the way the idea that there was ever peace in Iraq is utterly ridiculous.

This said, I think both presidents, Bush and Obama, committed blunders.

Now instead of this blame game and partisan posturing, we should all get together and find a solution to clean up the mess, regardless of who started it. (I know, fat chance; our divided political process will never allow us to work together).

I'd go in with 600K+ ground troops (hopefully not only ours but from other countries too) and would decimate ISIS to the last fighter in a matter of three weeks. So, ISIS has 30,000 fighters? Send in 20 times more than that, infinitely better equipped, and with overwhelmingly superior firepower by air, sea, and ground. Problem solved. It worked in the Gulf war.

The problem with any lesser measure is that sooner or later we'll need to engage for good anyway once that place becomes a terrorist haven and they start exporting the attacks into our homelands. Better now than later after ISIS encroaches even more and becomes stronger and more dangerous.

However, the West lacks the political will to act decisively like this.

Conclusion, we're in for another 10-year mess.

[I'm aware that this is not what I initially thought in this thread - but reading more about it and looking at initial results, I think now that this is an ill-managed initiative]
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

Link please?
I've already supplied one and you can google it yourself. This is something you should already know already if you want to seriously debate these issues.
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

It was a house of cards waiting to collapse. Their government was alienating the sunnies and kurds and they even threw them out of the military.

You got any more revisionist stories to tell?

What's revisionist. Even Barrack said Iraq was stable and Biden called Iraq their greatest achievement. It was stable but when Obama withdrew the troops, against everyone's advice, we can see what happened. And this was also predicted. George W. Bush was right about Iraq pullout - The Washington Post
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

You're sticking up for corrupt Al Maliki that responsible for Iraq's problems? Good God man you righties are desperate.
What?? Where did i stick up for Malaki? There is a real reading comprehension problem among leftists, and I blame the teachers unions.
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

The thousands who died after 'Mission Accomplished' and the thousands who would die to keep 'the promise'....

CON no sense! A contrived series of lies to build a house of cards, a coalition that was a few miles south of great, a democracy in name only, and a new terrorist breeding ground where none had existed before. More over we enabled Iran to gain HUGE advantage in the region. As far as winning a war, that is off the deep end!!!! We BRIBED our way out of Iraq after doing ever stupid move imaginable!

As far as President Obama pulling out our troops- the host nation refused to sign a status of forces agreement. Would you have us force our 'ally' to the table? Force out one hand picked crony for a more pliant one??? More bribes to what many outside of the CON circle saw as a corrupt Shia power structure. (do note the Kurds refused to play with anyone, even now as ISIL is poised on their borders)

BushII never won Iraq so the Obama could lose it.... get real....

Nothing in this fact-free rant makes any sense at all.
 
Killing Isis who kills Americas is one thing. I feel any action like that should be met with significantly greater and harsher force. And then we should leave. Anytime someone considers harming America...they should have to consider that our reaction will be triple what they do.

Equally they should also feel that we won't be involved if they don't involve us.

Doing what we are doing is not going to win us any support and it is only going to create more problems down the road. Just like the Cold War.

America, under the leadership of Ronald Reagan, won the Cold War.

Barrack Obama feels it is his decision whether there should be war or not, an opinion ISIS has chosen to ignore. I also don;t know whose support you want to win. But yes, there should be no halfway measures when fighting an enemy.
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

Work on your reading comp. When Obama said, "No" he meant he is saying he didn't say he didn't want a SOFA.

What do you take me for?
Then he should have been more clear, What we do know that he never negotiated a SOFA and left in triumph, just as he had promised he would.

You should ask yourself why BHO would want a SOFA if he was intending to remove the troops anyway?
 
Because we can't hold their hands forever. It was hoped if we didn't keep enabling them and being their crutch they might figure it's in their best interest to get their act together. Sadly I still don't think they get it. There new prime minister is chastising us for not being there sooner. WTF?

And he is right. Shouldn't the US have protected their investments in Iraq, including those who fought and died there? Why invest all of that and then just walk, knowing how weak Iraq was?
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

So, what's up with tipping one's hand to the enemy?

This is one of the problems with the freaking idea that Congress declares war and needs to be consulted.

I think the President should be the one declaring war and taking immediate action. Or at the very least, if there is Congress consultation it should be absolutely secret and behind closed doors.

In war, the element of surprise is very important and is only possible once - so, the first strike was the time to kill the maximum number of ISIS high level commanders and important personnel.

By engaging in our endless and paralyzed political process, we gave to the enemy all the time to hide and avoid our bombs.

You realize it was Obama who gave them warning, 10+ days ago, I hope.
 
NOPE. He doesn't have to do anything, nor do the American taxpayers who didn't vote for the idiot that created the aforementioned mess w/his invasion plan.

Obama DOES have to do something, he's losing married women because he's soft on terror. The dems know this, and the elections are a stones throw away. He's everyones President-do you extend your flawed logic to Obamacare? Not one republican voted for it-but EVERYONE IS FORCED TO COMPLY.

See how it works in reality? :2wave:
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

What's revisionist. Even Barrack said Iraq was stable and Biden called Iraq their greatest achievement. It was stable but when Obama withdrew the troops, against everyone's advice, we can see what happened. And this was also predicted. George W. Bush was right about Iraq pullout - The Washington Post

By Obama's own words it was a success, so logically the ISIS situation is his bad, right?


And this montage is pretty damning...
 
And he is right. Shouldn't the US have protected their investments in Iraq, including those who fought and died there? Why invest all of that and then just walk, knowing how weak Iraq was?

For the left the answer is simple-for politics-and that INCLUDES the anti-war left.
 
Obama DOES have to do something, he's losing married women because he's soft on terror. The dems know this, and the elections are a stones throw away. He's everyones President-do you extend your flawed logic to Obamacare? Not one republican voted for it-but EVERYONE IS FORCED TO COMPLY.

See how it works in reality? :2wave:

And the two men, Tom Daschle and Patrick Leahy, both of which had reservations about the Patriot Act, conveniently had their offices anthraxed. Subsequently, they came around.
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

Work on your reading comp. When Obama said, "No" he meant he is saying he didn't say he didn't want a SOFA.

What do you take me for?

Obama didn't want a status of forces agreement. A status of forces agreement would have meant that Obama couldn't say he ended the war and that he brought the troops home. Then, when things went to ****, he crawfished saying that none of it was his idea.
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

Obama didn't want a status of forces agreement. A status of forces agreement would have meant that Obama couldn't say he ended the war and that he brought the troops home. Then, when things went to ****, he crawfished saying that none of it was his idea.

Obama leads by looking at polls, taking credit that isn't his, and assigning blame to others for his failures.
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

You appeared to be blaming congress. Its funny, Obama sure didn't like it when Bush did these types of things. Why do you think Obama is doing them now?

It's the political game, and of course when politicians start their games, the generals must be rolling their eyes since politics always gets in the way of efficient warfare.
I don't subscribe to conspiracy theories. I won't say "Obama did that so that his buddies the Muslims had time to hide" or other crazy such theories.
It's just that there is all this game being played about the president's and congress' powers and all and both sides do their best to blame the other side or even sabotage the other side.
The nation's military would be better off if the decisions got made secretly and they were allowed to implement them by surprise. Unfortunately this is not how the political system is set up.
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

It's the political game, and of course when politicians start their games, the generals must be rolling their eyes since politics always gets in the way of efficient warfare.
I don't subscribe to conspiracy theories. I won't say "Obama did that so that his buddies the Muslims had time to hide" or other crazy such theories.
It's just that there is all this game being played about the president's and congress' powers and all and both sides do their best to blame the other side or even sabotage the other side.
The nation's military would be better off if the decisions got made secretly and they were allowed to implement them by surprise. Unfortunately this is not how the political system is set up.
Barrack Obama is a product of the educational environment where America was largely to blame for the world's ills, the American right wing was 'dangerous', and he understood that third world countries just wanted to get along in a peaceful world and America should just let them alone to do that. Barrack Obama had his 'conspiracy theories' as well, but most of these are disappearing now that he has been in office for six years and has a better idea of what's really going on.

Still, like the leftists we see on here and elsewhere, he has a difficult time in coming to terms with the real world, and his reluctance to act against the dangers obvious to those not blinded by leftist thinking demonstrates that. That's why he figures just a few air strikes to demonstrate American power will give them pause. But ISIS and others understand too well his lack of resolve in getting the big job done and will continue until strong leadership becomes available..
 
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