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US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria[W:354]

Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

you summed it all up -just for Iraq it has to be moe the Shi'a militias, or even a Shi'a army - they did go on a limited offensive the other day. Fallujah,Tikrit, I think. That's a long way to go to dislodging ISIL -even if they take those towns.

Syria: this group is a big swing one way or the other, see what happens, but there aren't permanent allainces
Syrian rebels deny truce deal with Islamic State - Al-Monitor: the Pulse of the Middle East

I wonder the same thing..

The middle east has always been a place of shifting alliances. For that matter I guess that applies to the world as a whole. The only thing I know for sure is that I don't have an answer and the way it looks, neither does anyone else.
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

The middle east has always been a place of shifting alliances. For that matter I guess that applies to the world as a whole. The only thing I know for sure is that I don't have an answer and the way it looks, neither does anyone else.
I mentioned this as it is prolly the biggest "Syrian moderate" group.
I thought it to be an informative link if you care to read.
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

Okay, guess I misunderstood or perhaps spaced right over it. Not overtly they are not. Did Syria ever sign a peace treaty with Israel? There was quite a lot of talk about that years ago.

I wasn't clear--trying to put beer in the fridge and post at the same time. As far as I can tell there is no Syrian-Israeli oeace treaty.
 
Then let the world take the risks. We have been for about 80 years.
The US has always been there, as has Australia when needed. The trouble is that most of the rest of the world can no longer defend themselves and the US cannot risk this cancer growing. This need to act, unfairly as it is, has been thrust upon them. And of course having a Community Organizer from Chicago in charge of something this big does not inspire confidence in anyone.

If Obama left the decisions up to the US military then I think there would be a coalition force much more quickly,
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

I'm a chess player - much appreciate the term/idea. Stalemate means no caliphate, but partitioning of Iraq. I'm good with that.

Just "check" these guys like perpetual check on the chessboard

That only works if they play the same game. There was a cartoon once along those lines and Obama shouted "Bingo!"
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

You guys talk like that's all we have in the tool box. The tomahawks are mostly used in the first phase to take out C & C to allow aircraft to be used later when it's safer.

It appears the Right is just itching to send more US troops to Iraq to die, so they can say little prayers and trick low information voters in Southern States. Again.
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

Turkish regulars would stand a better chance IMO against ISIS and would probably find an unlikely ally in the Iraqi Kurds......
Turkey is very fearful of getting involved. The risk there, as everywhere but to a larger degree for the Turks, is domestic terrorism.
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

It appears the Right is just itching to send more US troops to Iraq to die, so they can say little prayers and trick low information voters in Southern States. Again.

Righties want boots in the fighting for many reasons.

They'll accuse Obama of breaking his long-standing promise while doing exactly what they want.
They know the boots on the ground will split the DEM party.

They know Americans are against boots in the fighting and play shameful politics before an election .
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

The problem is we are now starting to arm what is known or what we have been told is moderate secular Islamic rebels. Some 5,000 of them which will not be available for at least a year. But even if they were, the numbers do not add up. 5,000 against ISIS's 30,000 and growing along with our moderate secular Islamic force taking on Assad's 250,000 man force and some other rebel groups all at the same time.

Perhaps we can get the Iraqi Army reconstituted, but if they are like what we seen so far...

Who does that really leave? NATO isn't going to commit troops, not Turkey. The Kurds will fight, but not far from their homeland. Iraq as a nation means nothing to them, they want their own homeland, country. But our NATO ally Turkey says no way. Other Arab nations, will they provide troops? I think not.

Perhaps we are in a corner here, where do we turn to for those troops that can push home the advantage our air strikes will give them? I see only one source at the moment. Perhaps not a nice source, perhaps even a force that would keep a tyrant in power. Perhaps we must decide which of the two evils present, ISIS and Assad we want left standing at the end of the day. I think reality with Putin and Iran backing Assad, he isn't going anywhere unless ISIS is successful in overthrowing him. It will not be our 5,000 strong moderate secular Islamic rebels.

There are way too many questions here, way too many bad choices, way too many dictators and tyrants. But it does seem, like it or not, that is whom has to be in charge for that region to remain stable. Kings, dictators, princes, tyrants. I wonder if there is really an answer to all of this.
The real danger is a half-assed war without commitment to win, and to win without question. That means shock and awe and more shock and awe and still more after that. Then, and only then, can these extremely committed people finally realize its over. History has taught us repeatedly that a total win is essential and it should never be ignored.
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

Very true, and let's not forget in mosques and schools and hospitals. ISIS knows how we operate and ISIS knows how to turn our humanitarian instincts against us. It is a good thing that no Hitler or Tojo has arisen today. IF we fought WWII like we been fighting our wars since Vietnam, those two would have won.

Can't compare WWII to fightin' commies... in the former there was no 'good guys' in the target countries. In Vietnam we were 'invited' to help defend a host government so carpet bombing any spot that had more than two huts together isn't in the cards and you should know that. fact is since WWII we spend our soldier's lives trying to keep guys a few rungs down the dictator ladder IN POWER rather than fighting to remove them til 9/11.
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

You guys talk like that's all we have in the tool box. The tomahawks are mostly used in the first phase to take out C & C to allow aircraft to be used later when it's safer.
The 2015 US Navy Budget slashes different aircraft and weapons. It isn't only Tomahawks. The irony is the purchase order of new Tactical Tomahawks are being slashed, from 784 over four years to just 100 and we used 47 Tomahawks in yesterday's mission. It seems rather feckless to me to gut your Navy budget first then turn around a wage an all "air war".
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

I mentioned this as it is prolly the biggest "Syrian moderate" group.
I thought it to be an informative link if you care to read.

Sure, anything to help me understand it better.
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

I wasn't clear--trying to put beer in the fridge and post at the same time. As far as I can tell there is no Syrian-Israeli oeace treaty.

Thanks. I wasn't sure.
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

The real danger is a half-assed war without commitment to win, and to win without question. That means shock and awe and more shock and awe and still more after that. Then, and only then, can these extremely committed people finally realize its over. History has taught us repeatedly that a total win is essential and it should never be ignored.

I agree with that. A prolonged war only increases causalities and caused more death and destruction than if we went in full hog with the idea of winning this thing and getting it over. No half measures.
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

Can't compare WWII to fightin' commies... in the former there was no 'good guys' in the target countries. In Vietnam we were 'invited' to help defend a host government so carpet bombing any spot that had more than two huts together isn't in the cards and you should know that. fact is since WWII we spend our soldier's lives trying to keep guys a few rungs down the dictator ladder IN POWER rather than fighting to remove them til 9/11.

The B-52's got quite a work out over there. What we didn't do was carpet bomb cities. The way things are working out in Libya I am not certain if Libya wasn't better off with Qaddafi then after and if Syria isn't better off with Assad then without him. I think we know Iraq would be better off with Saddam than without him. All one has to do is look at ISIS.

Does any one do an assessment of what a country will look like in any post dictator situation? Libya is total chaos and turmoil with everyone fighting everyone and becoming a training ground for terrorist again. Syria I am willing to bet would follow those line in a post Assad era or perhaps become an Islamic Republic in which the goal to either to convert everyone in the world or kill them.

I don't know, the middle east is not my area of expertise. I think this will come down to which one we consider the most evil and the most dangerous, Assad or ISIS. Somewhere down the line we will have to make a choice which one we want left standing.
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

Are you sure about that ?

And didn't the Gulf War start with air stikes ? Yep, sure did.

Then " boots on the ground ".

You are right about the Gulf war but the boots were already in place in nearby Saudi Arabia. That is not the case now unless you count the Saudi army. Those are the boots that Obama would like to see take the hurt to ISIS, especially in Syria. Syria has a Sunni majority too. It is becoming clear that ISIS is a spectre formed out of the Shia/Sunni imbalance we caused by handing Iraq to the Iranians. What better way to crush it than with a Sunni Army? It will take the wind out of their sails and reassert Sunni power by weakening Iran's hold on Iraq.
 
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Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

I agree with that. A prolonged war only increases causalities and caused more death and destruction than if we went in full hog with the idea of winning this thing and getting it over. No half measures.
The enemy is relentless and eager, it seems, to waste their lives. We have to be just as relentless, use our strengths to the maximum, and not waste any lives. When forces were cut in Afghanistan and Iraq there were more casualties. It may look good politically but it's not so good for the troops. I'd rather be surrounded by 50,000 good people than 1,600 and most everyone would say the same..
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

Sure, anything to help me understand it better.
No one understands it perfectly, Perotista, which is why we have so many differing opinions, even among the 'experts'.

My only concern that when there is war fight to win, hard and fast. If not, as we have seen since the troops were pulled from Iraq, all those people died for nothing, and the same with all those suffering with their injuries, and their loved ones. And the hell with the billions spent. That shouldn't be allowed to happen again and it is criminal if it does.
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

We're talking about the best way to defeat ISIS with the strategy the present has laid forth. I do not think Libya is better of today than it was under Qaddafi or for that matter Iraq under Saddam. What exactly has the Arab Spring brought us. An Egypt ruled by the military, Libya in chaos and turmoil with more fighting and death than before we disposed Qaddafi. Only that fighting and death is not on the news 24hours a day. A Syria that has spawned ISIS and other terrorist organization operating in Rebel held territory. We have an Iraq with about a quarter to a third of its territory controlled and run by ISIS. Constant war, at least Assad was not exporting terrorist or terrorism.

Rulers of different countries can be despots, tryants, but they do help keep a lid on things and bring stability. Will we, the good old USA be better off is Assad is displaced with an Islamic Republic bent on destroying the infidels of the world? Is Libya better off without Qaddafi? Having a bunch of different tribes and terrorist organizations fighting each other for control of Libya, I think not.



I believe that the Assad regime supported Hezbollah, a terrorist organization.
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

You guys talk like that's all we have in the tool box. The tomahawks are mostly used in the first phase to take out C & C to allow aircraft to be used later when it's safer.

The U.S. has roughly 3,000 Tomahawks. Several times over the years, those that were used were replaced. Mr. Obama used well over 200 of them in his private war against Libya. But then look at the results he achieved!

Because Tomahawks are a very expensive way to deliver a thousand pounds of explosives, they've usually been used against important targets that would be hard to attack with aircraft. Air defenses are one example. Anti-aircraft missiles, the radars that guide them, and the command centers that coordinate the operation of various parts of the network are very dangerous while they are still up and running, but at the same time, thin aluminum missiles and vans full of radar gear are vulnerable to damage.

When Tomahawks are fitted with a load of cluster bombs, each one disperses hundreds of these over an area like what an anti-aircraft missile site might cover. They can also be fitted with bombs that will penetrate several feet of concrete, such as might be used to fortify a command center.

So you're exactly right--Tomahawks have usually been used mostly in the opening stages, often to decrease the threat to attacking aircraft. I doubt they'd use one to destroy an anti-aircraft gun, which I've read these jihadists have quite a few of in some places. If some of these had been located, they might have been one of the targets of the B-1's. They've shown they can put bombs on small targets accurately from 30,000 feet, and at that altitude they'd face very little risk in attacking an anti-aircraft gun site.
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

Deflection. The proposition (i.e., rightwing talking point) was that you shouldn't oust dictators in the middle east. So -- SAY IT LOUD NOW -- who ousted Saddam?

Deflection to Bush for Obama's mistakes.
 
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