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US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria[W:354]

Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

But if we have total war, how would you complain about that?

No, but its unlikely-I dont know that we need it (it would take months or years to fully gear up). We would likely defeat these guys before hand (at least as they are currently situated, COIN would continue indefinitely
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

Assad should have been ready and then Mobilized and went in the ground mopping up what he could. Although ISIS did go and take Raqqa from the Rebels in the first place.

That would require closer cooperation with Assad, but I'd be all for it.
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

So what is it you want--boots on the ground or boots not on the ground ?
No, but its unlikely-I dont know that we need it (it would take months or years to fully gear up). We would likely defeat these guys before hand (at least as they are currently situated, COIN would continue indefinitely
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

It's hard to imagine any group of renegades, of any size, taking over even the smallest town in America.

The Syrian Army must not be worth the pound of gunpowder it would take to blow them all to hell. And the Iraqi soldiers. What a joke! They must all be ******s.

I thank my lucky stars I am an America. With the biggest, baddest, bravest, soldiers in the entire world.

Ooo-****ing-rah!!!
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

This has been the goal of your GOP since the night of the 2008 election .

More like the 2010 election. Republicans worked with him on the Stimulus Package, and Obama just ignored Republicans during the Healthcare Debate.

Are things any better in Iraq now that Hussein is gone? I think not.
As GOP Congressman Royce criticizes the President.
And a movement is now under way from DEM Van Hollen aimed at Boehner to bring back the 435 clowns from their vacation .

It's better than chemical genocide, institutionalized rape and a fake wmd program. A democratic government is fighting against genocide instead of a dictator committing it. Isn't that better?

Even though Iraq has turned into the mess that it is, I'm glad we did do it. It served to prove once and for all how uncivilized these people are and inept and incapable at self-rule they are.

Yep, this administration definitely wants Assad gone for some reason! Could it be that he's trying to bring his people into the 21st Century, and that doesn't fit in someone's scheme of things, where everyone is subjugated except the elite? We see the illegal aliens sneaking into this country from Central America and Mexico just to escape that way of life!

Saddam in Iraq was a monster, but he did keep the lid on the pressure cooker that is the ME , so we had to get rid of him. Things are so much better now, aren't they? Obviously not! I still haven't figured out why we got rid of Mubarak in Egypt, though, just to make room for the Muslim Brotherhood to take over. We saw what happened there - the people said No, and booted them out just as soon as they could! With the electronic gadgets that people all over the world have today, they dream of having the freedom they see others enjoy. Why should rebels be allowed to deny them that, and take them backwards into the dark ages again?

Did you fall asleep during the whole Arab Spring thing? That's what happened with Mubarak...

Check that, I know you were asleep throughout the whole thing because then you wouldn't be sitting there lying about Egyptians booting them out, it was the military (that we back) that finally decided they had enough. Face it, at this point, there is no secular movement within these rebel outfits, their all whackjob Muslims, because that seems to be all the ME is full of.
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

So what is it you want--boots on the ground or boots not on the ground ?

Jesus dude we were discussing total war, Ive already said I support boots on the ground. Try really hard here: do boots on the ground equal total war? You can do this.
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

I bet those bastards that were mocking us, beheading Americans, and raping and butchering women and children are now shaking in their boots. Nothing like a tomahawk missile or 500 lb. bomb to get your attention. I'll bet they don't think it's cool aid.

People make light of air strikes but if rhey only knew what it's like to be the target of them they would think differently.


The promise of airstrikes just give these people a chance to surround themselves with Women and Children.

To hunker down in Schools and Hospitals.

So the videos and pictures of the dead can be used to attract even more support from even more radicals.

Have you learned nothing from Hamas ?
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

Even though Iraq has turned into the mess that it is, I'm glad we did do it. It served to prove once and for all how uncivilized these people are and inept and incapable at self-rule they are.

I don't think a democratic government fighting against genocidal terrorism is a mess compared to a dictator committing chemical genocide.

Why do you believe Iraqis are incapable of self rule?
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

It's hard to imagine any group of renegades, of any size, taking over even the smallest town in America.

The Syrian Army must not be worth the pound of gunpowder it would take to blow them all to hell. And the Iraqi soldiers. What a joke! They must all be ******s.

I thank my lucky stars I am an America. With the biggest, baddest, bravest, soldiers in the entire world.

Ooo-****ing-rah!!!

I'm usually pretty "F*** Yea America!" myself, but in this case, you can't really blame either side. In both cases, you have a civil war where you just have cities that are defecting to the other side. IT be like with out civil war, technically, a bunch of renegades took over the southern states and just said "we're out". We had to fight a four year war to get them back undertow. I'm just saying that this problem has less to say about either militaries, and more to do about an ongoing (pair of) civil war.
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

That would require closer cooperation with Assad, but I'd be all for it.

Well, he could have just waited until we were done and then went in.

Oh and here was a source on ISIL and their beginning.


How ISIL came into existence?

How ISIL began
Establishment of ISIL goes back to the US-led attack on Iraq in 2003, when the group started working under the name Islamic State of Iraq. In October 15, 2006, after a series of meeting between multiple militant groups, the group announced its official establishment and Abu Umar al-Baghdadi was announced as leader of the group. In April 19th, 2010, after death of Abu Umar, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi became head of the militant group and started extending ISIL’s operations in the region. With the beginning of the war in Syria, ISIL militants, then known as ISI, joined the war to help the Western-backed Syrian opposition topple the Syrian government. The group later changed its name to the current one.

How is ISIL supported?
ISIL is widely believed to rely on foreign financial and military support. Following group’s invasion to Mosul, Iraqi officials blamed Saudi Arabia, Turkish intelligence and former Iraqi vice president Tariq al-Hashimi of facilitating the attack. Iraq’s Interior Ministry has said that militants have launched an open war in Iraq, and it was a ‘conspiracy’ that aimed to push the Middle Eastern country into chaos.....snip~

How ISIL came into existence?
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

Are things any better in Iraq now that Hussein is gone? I think not.
As GOP Congressman Royce criticizes the President.
And a movement is now under way from DEM Van Hollen aimed at Boehner to bring back the 435 clowns from their vacation .

If you followed Pol and my little discussion on this over the last few days, Iraq and Libya are worst off than when they were ruled by Saddam and Qaddafi. In fact, they are a lot worst off. Syria would be the same. I have never understood the obsession to do away with Assad, Qaddafi, Saddam or even Noriega back during Bush the first. Although I do think out of those 4, Panama is in a lot better shape than when Noriega was in charge. But Libya and Iraq are now basket cases, full of nothing but chaos and turmoil and breeding and training grounds for terrorist.

For Obama's strategy to work, he needs a competent ground force. The problem is his supposedly moderate Islamic rebels to number some 5,000 is at least a year away. Now that is 5,000 supposedly going up against 30,000 ISIS troops and 250,000 Syrian troops. The numbers do not add up. Now I am not forgetting the Iraqi, but they are a force who likes to run. Now the Kurds will fight, but not far from their homeland. So who is going to supply the ground forces? Our Air power and indigenous troops worked in Laos keeping the PL and NVA from taking over that country. Our Air Power and the Afghani troops of the Northern Alliance drove out the Taliban with just a few SF and para military on the ground. That is before all this nation building junk took place.

I think that ground force needed to defeat ISIS is sitting right there in Syria. Now the Arabs are not going to commit ground forces, neither is nato. If we want a stable Syria, make nice with Assad. If we want ISIS gone, make nice with Assad. that is my opinion anyway.
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

I have long known that there was a grand civil war brewing over there and was bound to eventually have to take place. Hell, it's already decades, if not centuries, overdue.

There is nothing America can do about that. Neither can we stand by and tolerate cancerous ideologies like that of ISIS/ISIL.

I so wanted the US to not touch their civil war with a 10 foot pole. For all I care they can wipe each other out. But ISIS/ISIL is Satan himself, so to speak. They need to be exterminated with prejudice. And if we can do our part from the air, the better I like it. But everyone has to do their part. Their own people do not have a hair on their ass. Those cowards could not fight their way out of a paper bag when going toe to toe with a rival military. All they have is evil. Beheadings. Suicide belts. All those cowardly tactics. Evil.

But I come to expect no more than that from the feral people over there. They are inept. They can't do anything but cause misery to themselves and others. Their religion sucks too. Allah and Mohammad my ass. What a bunch of crap. And they kill each other, and others, over it. If genocide was EVER justified, this would be it. But it isn't. So we have to go and surgically remove the evil DNA from the "just stupid dumbass" DNA, to keep from being evil ourselves. I still say nuke 'em all and let Allah sort 'em out. But that's just me. Popcorn anyone?
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

The promise of airstrikes just give these people a chance to surround themselves with Women and Children.

To hunker down in Schools and Hospitals.

So the videos and pictures of the dead can be used to attract even more support from even more radicals.

Have you learned nothing from Hamas ?

It is pretty hard to win any battles with your army hunkered down in schools and hospitals. We are stopping their advances first, then their supply lines and money supply.
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

I don't think a democratic government fighting against genocidal terrorism is a mess compared to a dictator committing chemical genocide.

Why do you believe Iraqis are incapable of self rule?

An untold story in all of this mess is that reason for ISIS run through western Iraq has nothing to do with the state of the Iraqi Military, but of the Iraqi political atmosphere. Ever since the US began the pull the out of American troops, MalikiSince 2008 Maliki’s small circle of Shia allies has recentralised power, disregarding the checks on executive power put in place before the U.S. withdrawal. has been and overall dick to the Sunni minority. State responsibilities such as control of federal courts, the central bank, and the selection of military commanders are now under the control of the Shia-led cabinet, all at the expense of their Sunni rivals. And only days after the U.S. exit, Maliki issued a politically motivated warrant for the arrest of Sunni Vice President Tariq al-Hashemi, charging him with coordinating bomb plots and operating various terrorist cells. An NPR article dated June 25, 2014, tells us just how bad things were before ISIS came in; "In the Baghdad suburb of Dora, Sunni Sheik Abu Ali al-Jubbouri says the dangers Sunnis face are evident every night. Shiite militias have started operating openly since the uprising in other parts of the country — patrolling the streets, intimidating people."

The end result is a sectarian government that wants to have their way against their Sunni counterparts, in some effort to get them back for the past 40 some odd years prior of Saddam (who favored the Sunni) rule. Enter ISIS into the picture. It's not a coincidence that ISIS moved through western Iraq with such ease. The problem doesn't lie in some inability of the Iraqi Military, but in the fact that the Sunnis have had enough of Maliki's government. In fact, if there's one leader we should be taking out at this moment... it's Maliki. Were Maliki removed today, a national unity government may be setup that could tackle the issue of ISIS properly. The Sunnis in Iraq have a lot of experience fighting these types of guys (many fought Al Qaeda back during the Iraq War during the Awakening). and could certainly kick them out were they so inclined.

In any event, to answer your last question directly, the reason why it will ultimately fail is that to these people, they don't think of themselves as "Iraqi" but of "Sunni" or "Shia". The way that Iraq's government is setup, you'll never see a fair balance of power between the those two factions. Even before this year, many argued the only solution was partitioning. It just seems like ISIS has done that job for us.



Source: Angry At Shiite-Led Government, Sunnis Are Loath To Help Calm Iraq : Parallels : NPR
Maliki: Is Iraq PM's Repression Of Sunnis Driving Iraq's Violence? - Mic
http://www.newsweek.com/iraqs-sunnis-will-kick-out-isis-after-dumping-maliki-ex-cia-official-256270
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

If you followed Pol and my little discussion on this over the last few days, Iraq and Libya are worst off than when they were ruled by Saddam and Qaddafi. In fact, they are a lot worst off. Syria would be the same. I have never understood the obsession to do away with Assad, Qaddafi, Saddam or even Noriega back during Bush the first. Although I do think out of those 4, Panama is in a lot better shape than when Noriega was in charge. But Libya and Iraq are now basket cases, full of nothing but chaos and turmoil and breeding and training grounds for terrorist.

For Obama's strategy to work, he needs a competent ground force. The problem is his supposedly moderate Islamic rebels to number some 5,000 is at least a year away. Now that is 5,000 supposedly going up against 30,000 ISIS troops and 250,000 Syrian troops. The numbers do not add up. Now I am not forgetting the Iraqi, but they are a force who likes to run. Now the Kurds will fight, but not far from their homeland. So who is going to supply the ground forces? Our Air power and indigenous troops worked in Laos keeping the PL and NVA from taking over that country. Our Air Power and the Afghani troops of the Northern Alliance drove out the Taliban with just a few SF and para military on the ground. That is before all this nation building junk took place.

I think that ground force needed to defeat ISIS is sitting right there in Syria. Now the Arabs are not going to commit ground forces, neither is nato. If we want a stable Syria, make nice with Assad. If we want ISIS gone, make nice with Assad. that is my opinion anyway.

So you are cool then with the brutal acts Assad committed that is what ultimately led to the Civil War that is occurring today? Why do people keep forgetting the Arab Spring?

Somewhere therein you explain why Iraqis are incapable of self rule?

Long in short, there is no such thing as Iraq for these people; the term "Iraqi" means nothing to them. Ergo, without a national identity, they will just fall back on who they are... Sunni fighting Shia.
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

So you are cool then with the brutal acts Assad committed that is what ultimately led to the Civil War that is occurring today? Why do people keep forgetting the Arab Spring?



Long in short, there is no such thing as Iraq for these people; the term "Iraqi" means nothing to them. Ergo, without a national identity, they will just fall back on who they are... Sunni fighting Shia.

We're talking about the best way to defeat ISIS with the strategy the present has laid forth. I do not think Libya is better of today than it was under Qaddafi or for that matter Iraq under Saddam. What exactly has the Arab Spring brought us. An Egypt ruled by the military, Libya in chaos and turmoil with more fighting and death than before we disposed Qaddafi. Only that fighting and death is not on the news 24hours a day. A Syria that has spawned ISIS and other terrorist organization operating in Rebel held territory. We have an Iraq with about a quarter to a third of its territory controlled and run by ISIS. Constant war, at least Assad was not exporting terrorist or terrorism.

Rulers of different countries can be despots, tryants, but they do help keep a lid on things and bring stability. Will we, the good old USA be better off is Assad is displaced with an Islamic Republic bent on destroying the infidels of the world? Is Libya better off without Qaddafi? Having a bunch of different tribes and terrorist organizations fighting each other for control of Libya, I think not.
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

"Dubya" is no longer President,

And if he never became Pres, the current mess in Iraq would never have occurred.

But thanks to baby-minded voters (i. e. conservatives), he did, and now Iraq has to pay the price.
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

We're talking about the best way to defeat ISIS with the strategy the present has laid forth. I do not think Libya is better of today than it was under Qaddafi or for that matter Iraq under Saddam. What exactly has the Arab Spring brought us. An Egypt ruled by the military, Libya in chaos and turmoil with more fighting and death than before we disposed Qaddafi. Only that fighting and death is not on the news 24hours a day. A Syria that has spawned ISIS and other terrorist organization operating in Rebel held territory. We have an Iraq with about a quarter to a third of its territory controlled and run by ISIS. Constant war, at least Assad was not exporting terrorist or terrorism.

Rulers of different countries can be despots, tryants, but they do help keep a lid on things and bring stability. Will we, the good old USA be better off is Assad is displaced with an Islamic Republic bent on destroying the infidels of the world? Is Libya better off without Qaddafi? Having a bunch of different tribes and terrorist organizations fighting each other for control of Libya, I think not.

So, to summarize, yes, your cool with supporting ruthless dictators in the middle east who brutalize their own people. Incidentally, after seeing what Arabs do with democracy, I'm sort of inclined to agree. But I do think it's important that we accept this reality, so that when inevitably, the next Shah of Iran scenario occurs, we're not caught blind-sighted.

And if he never became Pres, the current mess in Iraq would never have occurred.

But thanks to baby-minded voters (i. e. conservatives), he did, and now Iraq has to pay the price.

Oh yeah, cause it's not like a democrat has never attacked Iraq... oh wait...
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

And if he never became Pres, the current mess in Iraq would never have occurred.

But thanks to baby-minded voters (i. e. conservatives), he did, and now Iraq has to pay the price.

And if Obama never became Pres, losing the Peace in Iraq would never have occurred.

But thanks to baby-minded voters (i. e. liberals), he did, and now Iraq has to pay the price.

See how easy this is? :roll:
 
Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

I'm repeating what happened. You're pretending it didn't. I think this is the difference between liberals and conservatives.

The fundamentals fact of the current Mideast is that Bush/Cheney's ineptitude and arrogance resulted in chaos, including the rise of ISIS.
You are a liberal therefore anything you say or believe has to have some factual support. Where is it this time?
 
Yay genocide!

Not genocide. They aren't our problem. We get NOTHING from installing a pro western regime. They eventually become the worst guys and we take all the crap. Did you not learn anything from the Cold War?

We can't gain popular support because we are the wrong religion, and we want the wrong government. We can't gain government support because we either don't want it (genocidal megalomaniacs with nukes) or they don't want us because we are the wrong government type or we are the wrong religion (secular). We are screwed all the way around.

Our best bet? Get out. Kill the ones who want to kill us (and are trying). And let it cool down. How many times do they bomb china? Or Iceland? I'm not saying isolationism is a great policy for a nation, but it does work dealing with some regions.
 
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