US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria[W:354]

Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

US Conservative said:

Its pretty straight forward, if Obama hadn't lost the peace in Iraq for his personal political benefit-we wouldn't be here now.

So while he needs to clean up his mess-that mess is THERE because of our incompetent president.

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Unfortunately dumbya's mess in Iraq may never cleaned up, much like the GOP-backed oil spill in the Gulf.

Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

MMC said:

I would have no problem with it.....as I didn't with NAM. I volunteered and was never drafted. Course now they have this issue about age. Moreover growing up here where I did. One thing is for certain. I was warring a long time before I ever joined Uncle Sam's Gang.

Another thing.....I would be in the thick of it up on the front.....if not behind enemy lines, and not hiding behind anyone else. Rangers Lead the Way. Sua Sponte.

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Wow! You're a real GI Joe, aren't you? :lamo

Sorry, I started laughing when I saw that you volunteered for Viet Nam. Just to let you know, I would love for you to be thick of it, if that is what makes you happy.

Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

solletica said:

Unfortunately dumbya's mess in Iraq may never cleaned up, much like the GOP-backed oil spill in the Gulf.

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This is getting too weird now.

Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

Texmex said:

Wow! You're a real GI Joe, aren't you? :lamo

Sorry, I started laughing when I saw that you volunteered for Viet Nam. Just to let you know, I would love for you to be thick of it, if that is what makes you happy.

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Nah....I did my time.

Oh, did you start laughing when you saw I volunteered. Yeah I would step up for Country- Even Under BO!

But you didn't think I included you in that.....did you?

Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

Grant said:

Where did you get the idea that the people of Iraq didn't want a democracy?

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I didn't say they didn't want democracy. They just didn't want us occupying their country.

U.S. Troops Are Leaving Because Iraq Doesn't Want Them There - The Atlantic

Iraqi Prime Minister Says U.S. Forces Must Leave On Time - WSJ

And for those who are piling on Obama for withdrawing. You do realize that A 2008 (Pre Obama) security deal between Washington and Baghdad called for all American forces to leave Iraq by 2011?

If anything Obama extended our stay there.

Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

Does everyone believe that anytime some group around the world, hideously, kills an American or even commits a criminal act of bombing our buildings that we should retaliate with the entire US Military, and does that really solve the problem?

We don't seem to know 'what to do' or 'when to do it' for an effective outcome anymore?

We started the mess in the ME and destabilized the area, but will we ever get it back to some semblance of sane stability?

Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

US Conservative said:

They are marginalized-ISIS is not. I just said a word of prayer for our men and women over hostile territory.

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Apparently you havent heard of Golden Dawn, the Sweedish Democrats, BNP.

Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

grip said:

Does everyone believe that anytime some group around the world, hideously, kills an American or even commits a criminal act of bombing our buildings that we should retaliate with the entire US Military, and does that really solve the problem?

We don't seem to 'what to do' or 'when to do it' for an effective outcome anymore?

We started the mess in the ME and destabilized the area, but will we ever get it back to some semblance of sane stability?

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The ME was sane and stable at some point? When was that?

Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

FaceofBachmann said:

Bush invades Iraq under false pretenses. Chaos ensues. Iran - part of the Evil Empire Bush identifies -- becomes the dominate hegemon of the region, sparking armed sectarian conflicts between conflicting religious sects that had simmered under Saddam but were manageable. Syria gets pulled into the mess due to its close ties to Saddam and Iraq.

See, that isn't hard to follow.

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You really, really, really don't know what you are talking about. The Syrian civil war was sparked during the "Islamic Spring" which was brutally crushed by the Assad regime. Militants flocked to Syria to help overthrow Assad. The US, under the leadership of Barack Obama, tacitly supported the Islamic militants in Syria over Assad under the mistaken assumption that they would be allied to the US due to US support. This has been the standard Achilles heel of Obama throughout his presidency in his ME policy. His "we'll offer a hand if you unclench your fist" plays precisely to the Islamic militants in Syria (and Libya and Egypt) who play along until they have built a strong enough army to break loose and start expanding their area of control.

This con game has been going on for a few years now: Islamic Militants melt into a group of "student uprising", the resident dictator stomps "student uprising", Obama comes to the rescue and boots out the dictator, "student uprising" is over powered by Islamic militants.

This didn't happen in Iraq because we hung around in Iraq to combat this Islamic uprising after Saddam fell. It came from Syria because Obama doesn't know what the hell he is doing and backed the Islamic Militants in Syria.

General rule of thumb that Obama fails to understand: In the Middle East you either back the dictator or you put boots on the ground and overthrow him yourself and maintain he peace. Helping overthrow the dictator and not putting boots on the ground to maintain the peace gets you AQ controlling Libya and ISIS controlling half of Iraq and Syria.

Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

Fletch said:

The ME was sane and stable at some point? When was that?

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It wasn't anything like it is now since the Iraq War and Arab Spring, unless we're looking at two different world's?

Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

Jetboogieman said:

They'll twist it as much as they have to.

Instead of figuring out how to fix this mess all these guys just wanna blame, blame, blame..

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It's funny because your are really describing the Democrats and Obama to a T.

Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

FaceofBachmann said:

So is US Conservative happy or sad that Obama is bombing terrorists? It's hard for conservatives to keep their talking points straight nowadays, they've become so virulently Obamaphobic.

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Interesting that your first and, apparently, only consideration in this war is what the "conservatives" think. Which, I suggest, this "war" has not one thing to do with terrorism but over all public opinion heading into the mid terms.

I am neither happy nor sad, but still asking 'what is the objective'? and how will it be achieved through aerial bombardment alone?

American progressives, in their headlong, blind rush to prove that Obama is incapable or error seem to have lost sight of what is war. People, civilians die not only in the bombing but as has been learned in Vietnam and other ugly little wars, civilians are the target for reprisals and there is NO way to prevent that without boots on the ground. We have seen the medieval horror these vermin are capable of, Obama announced his attack weeks beforehand allowing ISIS cells to go underground. They will re-emerge to torture and behead in retribution.

So, what is required here is not an on going political, name calling feud, but actually seeing this as war and not a political chess piece to be moved around an imaginary board. Progressives and the president need to pony up and start answering some of these questions. What Republicans may or may not be doing is irrelevant. Finding an end to a war Obama said he had ended is the priority.

Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

grip said:

Does everyone believe that anytime some group around the world, hideously, kills an American or even commits a criminal act of bombing our buildings that we should retaliate with the entire US Military, and does that really solve the problem?

We don't seem to 'what to do' or 'when to do it' for an effective outcome anymore?

We started the mess in the ME and destabilized the area, but will we ever get it back to some semblance of sane stability?

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There is a difference Grip. :2wave: Some groups declare war on Americans and all its interests.

We didn't start the mess and the mess would still be the mess.

Whats missing from the convo is.....What has Russia said? Moreover what has Assad to say? We do know at the beginning of Attack.....the Israelis shot down a Syrian Fighter over Golan.

Yet what I am wondering about is.....why, knowing al Nusra controls the Golan?

Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

grip said:

Does everyone believe that anytime some group around the world, hideously, kills an American or even commits a criminal act of bombing our buildings that we should retaliate with the entire US Military, and does that really solve the problem?

We don't seem to 'what to do' or 'when to do it' for an effective outcome anymore?

We started the mess in the ME and destabilized the area, but will we ever get it back to some semblance of sane stability?

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It seems there is a very flexible policy of when to attack/invade and when to ignore it. Here the US is re-attacking one country and attacking Syria as well as the result, primarily of the beheading of a free lance journalist.

However, four Americans die in the service of their country in a clear Al-Qaeda raid on a Consulate of the United States and the response is an FBI investigation that has produced squat on toast.

I suspect the timing of elections may have something to do with that, while running on a platform of "I killed Osama" and Al-Qaeda is on the run is not the time to admit you are lying and attack. However when the mid terms loom and the nation is horrified by the real horror of revolution it's then time for a "limited engagement"....kind of like Kerry's "teesny attack" with some meat in the bones.....three years of meat

Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

MMC said:

There is a difference Grip. :2wave: Some groups declare war on Americans and all its interests.

We didn't start the mess and the mess would still be the mess.

Whats missing from the convo is.....What has Russia said? Moreover what has Assad to say? We do know at the beginning of Attack.....the Israelis shot down a Syrian Fighter over Golan.

Yet what I am wondering about is.....why, knowing al Nusra controls the Golan?

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Then we go after that group with an appropriate response, not use a sledge hammer to swat a fly. Or use so much military might that the whole thing is over quickly, instead of a drawn out mess that continually spirals out, involving other countries.

Our first two years in Afghanistan were successful at tamping down the Taliban and AQ, but instead of halting it there we had to invade Iraq. It's these unjust overreactions that support their ability to recruit so many fighters.

Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

Paschendale said:

Obviously, bombing people is the best way to achieve peace in volatile situations. People don't, like, want revenge for that sort of thing or anything like that.

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That's exactly why it was so stupid for the U.S. to bomb Japan and Germany during World War II. Why, that was no way to achieve peace in a volatile situation! It just made the Japanese and Germans want to take revenge. We should never make any enemy mad at us, because if we make him feel icky he will just react by doing things to make us feel icky, too.

Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

Grant said:

This is getting too weird now.

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Nothing weird. Dumbya was making a mess and no one spanked him. Hello, history

Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

Fearandloathing said:

It seems there is a very flexible policy of when to attack/invade and when to ignore it. Here the US is re-attacking one country and attacking Syria as well as the result, primarily of the beheading of a free lance journalist.

However, four Americans die in the service of their country in a clear Al-Qaeda raid on a Consulate of the United States and the response is an FBI investigation that has produced squat on toast.

I suspect the timing of elections may have something to do with that, while running on a platform of "I killed Osama" and Al-Qaeda is on the run is not the time to admit you are lying and attack. However when the mid terms loom and the nation is horrified by the real horror of revolution it's then time for a "limited engagement"....kind of like Kerry's "teesny attack" with some meat in the bones.....three years of meat

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Sadly, this is all too true that the leadership and politicians can't separate true military need from partisan rhetoric and campaign attacks. When our ideology gets confused between Headlines, politics and phoney image building, you can see why we're so lost in what to do with these geopolitical conflicts.

Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

grip said:

Then we go after that group with an appropriate response, not use a sledge hammer to swat a fly. Or use so much military might that the whole thing is over quickly, instead of a drawn out mess that continually spirals out, involving other countries.

Our first two years in Afghanistan were successful at tamping down the Taliban and AQ, but instead of halting it there we had to invade Iraq. It's these unjust overreactions that support their ability to recruit so many fighters.

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Well, one can note how all the Sunni would have no trouble sending in their Air power into Syria......if we had not been part of this, this does not happen due to Assad's Anti Air. As well as all then noticing that Sectarian divide for what it really is. Which to the Saud and the Sunni far outweighs the Dictator Assad.

Al Sadr in Iraq is already stirring up the Shia and wants the US out of Iraq. Which really they don't care so much for the Kurds either.

Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

matchlight said:

That's exactly why it was so stupid for the U.S. to bomb Japan and Germany during World War II. Why, that was no way to achieve peace in a volatile situation! It just made the Japanese and Germans want to take revenge. We should never make any enemy mad at us, because if we make him feel icky he will just react by doing things to make us feel icky, too.

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You do understand that there are middle grounds between "always" and "never", right? And each situation is evaluated on its own, right? This situation, like most situations, will be made worse by the application of violence. The only grounds for intervention in this situation is humanitarian aid and protection for the people of Iraq and Syria that ISIS is menacing. That is a worthy reason. Bombing ISIS because we don't like it when Muslims have weapons is only going to galvanize more people to take up violence in the area. Violence begets more violence.

Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

rcart76 said:

I didn't say they didn't want democracy. They just didn't want us occupying their country.

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Then what did you mean when you said "No the mistake was going in there the in the first place trying to re-brand a country in our image when they didn't ask for it"?. If you weren't talking 'democracy' what did you mean?

U.S. Troops Are Leaving Because Iraq Doesn't Want Them There - The Atlantic

Iraqi Prime Minister Says U.S. Forces Must Leave On Time - WSJ

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The key to understand what was happening is in this paragraph.

Mr. Maliki's new majority depends partly on followers of anti-American cleric Moqtada al-Sadr. But Mr. Biden credited Mr. Maliki for denying Mr. Sadr's bloc any control of Iraqi security, while forming a government with full buy-in from Iraq's main factions of Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds.

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Malaki had to deal with different factions publicly but everyone knew, or should have known, that Iraq couldn't survive without US military presence. Do you believe that if Obama knew what was going to happen he would still have withdrawn all US troops? And if Malaki forced the US to withdraw why did Biden call it 'the greatest achievement'? Or Obama call it 'stable'. and that he was pulling out the troops as per his election promise?

This is really something you should read, and it quotes Barrack Obama directly. Barack Obama declares Iraq war a success | World news | The Guardian

And for those who are piling on Obama for withdrawing. You do realize that A 2008 (Pre Obama) security deal between Washington and Baghdad called for all American forces to leave Iraq by 2011? If anything Obama extended our stay there.

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That was the SOFA agreement which was expiring and expected to be re-negotiated.

Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

MMC said:

Yep.....now ISIS will look to play the Hamas game and hope that the MS Media will report all those innocent deaths. The women.....oh and of course the Children. They want the MS media to keep reporting that and make that into an issue. Especially with the terrorists going underground, hiding and blending in with the civilian population.

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Absolutely, however in Syria the state runs the media unlike Israel, so we wont see it nearly as much.

Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

MMC said:

Well so far with all those Demo Underground talking points.....you didn't think you were actually amazing anyone with all that so called intellect.....did you? Think first.....remember!

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Hows this for democrat talking points?

Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

PoS said:

Obama WAS keeping a small presence in Iraq to keep the peace but it exploded anyway.

Dubya's doctrine was to support a corrupt government under Maliki which made ISIS possible, I may dislike Obama but he was strictly following Dubya's policy on this.

So Dubya is as much to blame for getting the US into this mess as Obama has. If Saddam Hussein had stayed in power this wouldnt have happened. All Dubya did was replace a brutal dictator who tortured his own people with a group of sadistic terrorists who are exporting their war internationally- Bush Jr. has done more to help terrorists than any previous president and Obama is just as bad.

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"Dubya" is no longer President, and Iraq destabilized under Obama-the guy who started flinging bombs last night. The same guy who pulled all military forces out of Iraq despite his own military staff telling him not to-they warned him of this exact issue and Obama decided to go for votes over any security-and now many people are dead.

Its on Obama.

Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

j-mac said:

So, just so i have this straight, liberals hated Bush for going into the ME so much so that they put in a guy that was sure to abruptly pull out as fast as he could, and when that is shown to be a complete mistake, its still not his fault?

Wow! Amazing....

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Thats how it works! Obama is a brilliant leader and when he fails, its someone else's fault. Very nuanced and subtle, isn't it? :doh