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Thread: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria[W:354]

  1. #561
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    Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    Are things any better in Iraq now that Hussein is gone? I think not.
    As GOP Congressman Royce criticizes the President.
    And a movement is now under way from DEM Van Hollen aimed at Boehner to bring back the 435 clowns from their vacation .
    If you followed Pol and my little discussion on this over the last few days, Iraq and Libya are worst off than when they were ruled by Saddam and Qaddafi. In fact, they are a lot worst off. Syria would be the same. I have never understood the obsession to do away with Assad, Qaddafi, Saddam or even Noriega back during Bush the first. Although I do think out of those 4, Panama is in a lot better shape than when Noriega was in charge. But Libya and Iraq are now basket cases, full of nothing but chaos and turmoil and breeding and training grounds for terrorist.

    For Obama's strategy to work, he needs a competent ground force. The problem is his supposedly moderate Islamic rebels to number some 5,000 is at least a year away. Now that is 5,000 supposedly going up against 30,000 ISIS troops and 250,000 Syrian troops. The numbers do not add up. Now I am not forgetting the Iraqi, but they are a force who likes to run. Now the Kurds will fight, but not far from their homeland. So who is going to supply the ground forces? Our Air power and indigenous troops worked in Laos keeping the PL and NVA from taking over that country. Our Air Power and the Afghani troops of the Northern Alliance drove out the Taliban with just a few SF and para military on the ground. That is before all this nation building junk took place.

    I think that ground force needed to defeat ISIS is sitting right there in Syria. Now the Arabs are not going to commit ground forces, neither is nato. If we want a stable Syria, make nice with Assad. If we want ISIS gone, make nice with Assad. that is my opinion anyway.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  2. #562
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    Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

    I have long known that there was a grand civil war brewing over there and was bound to eventually have to take place. Hell, it's already decades, if not centuries, overdue.

    There is nothing America can do about that. Neither can we stand by and tolerate cancerous ideologies like that of ISIS/ISIL.

    I so wanted the US to not touch their civil war with a 10 foot pole. For all I care they can wipe each other out. But ISIS/ISIL is Satan himself, so to speak. They need to be exterminated with prejudice. And if we can do our part from the air, the better I like it. But everyone has to do their part. Their own people do not have a hair on their ass. Those cowards could not fight their way out of a paper bag when going toe to toe with a rival military. All they have is evil. Beheadings. Suicide belts. All those cowardly tactics. Evil.

    But I come to expect no more than that from the feral people over there. They are inept. They can't do anything but cause misery to themselves and others. Their religion sucks too. Allah and Mohammad my ass. What a bunch of crap. And they kill each other, and others, over it. If genocide was EVER justified, this would be it. But it isn't. So we have to go and surgically remove the evil DNA from the "just stupid dumbass" DNA, to keep from being evil ourselves. I still say nuke 'em all and let Allah sort 'em out. But that's just me. Popcorn anyone?

    It's GREAT to be me. --- "45% liberal/55% conservative"
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  3. #563
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    Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    The promise of airstrikes just give these people a chance to surround themselves with Women and Children.

    To hunker down in Schools and Hospitals.

    So the videos and pictures of the dead can be used to attract even more support from even more radicals.

    Have you learned nothing from Hamas ?
    It is pretty hard to win any battles with your army hunkered down in schools and hospitals. We are stopping their advances first, then their supply lines and money supply.

  4. #564
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    Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I don't think a democratic government fighting against genocidal terrorism is a mess compared to a dictator committing chemical genocide.

    Why do you believe Iraqis are incapable of self rule?
    An untold story in all of this mess is that reason for ISIS run through western Iraq has nothing to do with the state of the Iraqi Military, but of the Iraqi political atmosphere. Ever since the US began the pull the out of American troops, MalikiSince 2008 Malikiís small circle of Shia allies has recentralised power, disregarding the checks on executive power put in place before the U.S. withdrawal. has been and overall dick to the Sunni minority. State responsibilities such as control of federal courts, the central bank, and the selection of military commanders are now under the control of the Shia-led cabinet, all at the expense of their Sunni rivals. And only days after the U.S. exit, Maliki issued a politically motivated warrant for the arrest of Sunni Vice President Tariq al-Hashemi, charging him with coordinating bomb plots and operating various terrorist cells. An NPR article dated June 25, 2014, tells us just how bad things were before ISIS came in; "In the Baghdad suburb of Dora, Sunni Sheik Abu Ali al-Jubbouri says the dangers Sunnis face are evident every night. Shiite militias have started operating openly since the uprising in other parts of the country ó patrolling the streets, intimidating people."

    The end result is a sectarian government that wants to have their way against their Sunni counterparts, in some effort to get them back for the past 40 some odd years prior of Saddam (who favored the Sunni) rule. Enter ISIS into the picture. It's not a coincidence that ISIS moved through western Iraq with such ease. The problem doesn't lie in some inability of the Iraqi Military, but in the fact that the Sunnis have had enough of Maliki's government. In fact, if there's one leader we should be taking out at this moment... it's Maliki. Were Maliki removed today, a national unity government may be setup that could tackle the issue of ISIS properly. The Sunnis in Iraq have a lot of experience fighting these types of guys (many fought Al Qaeda back during the Iraq War during the Awakening). and could certainly kick them out were they so inclined.

    In any event, to answer your last question directly, the reason why it will ultimately fail is that to these people, they don't think of themselves as "Iraqi" but of "Sunni" or "Shia". The way that Iraq's government is setup, you'll never see a fair balance of power between the those two factions. Even before this year, many argued the only solution was partitioning. It just seems like ISIS has done that job for us.



    Source: Angry At Shiite-Led Government, Sunnis Are Loath To Help Calm Iraq : Parallels : NPR
    Maliki: Is Iraq PM's Repression Of Sunnis Driving Iraq's Violence? - Mic
    http://www.newsweek.com/iraqs-sunnis...fficial-256270

  5. #565
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    Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria


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    Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    If you followed Pol and my little discussion on this over the last few days, Iraq and Libya are worst off than when they were ruled by Saddam and Qaddafi. In fact, they are a lot worst off. Syria would be the same. I have never understood the obsession to do away with Assad, Qaddafi, Saddam or even Noriega back during Bush the first. Although I do think out of those 4, Panama is in a lot better shape than when Noriega was in charge. But Libya and Iraq are now basket cases, full of nothing but chaos and turmoil and breeding and training grounds for terrorist.

    For Obama's strategy to work, he needs a competent ground force. The problem is his supposedly moderate Islamic rebels to number some 5,000 is at least a year away. Now that is 5,000 supposedly going up against 30,000 ISIS troops and 250,000 Syrian troops. The numbers do not add up. Now I am not forgetting the Iraqi, but they are a force who likes to run. Now the Kurds will fight, but not far from their homeland. So who is going to supply the ground forces? Our Air power and indigenous troops worked in Laos keeping the PL and NVA from taking over that country. Our Air Power and the Afghani troops of the Northern Alliance drove out the Taliban with just a few SF and para military on the ground. That is before all this nation building junk took place.

    I think that ground force needed to defeat ISIS is sitting right there in Syria. Now the Arabs are not going to commit ground forces, neither is nato. If we want a stable Syria, make nice with Assad. If we want ISIS gone, make nice with Assad. that is my opinion anyway.
    So you are cool then with the brutal acts Assad committed that is what ultimately led to the Civil War that is occurring today? Why do people keep forgetting the Arab Spring?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Somewhere therein you explain why Iraqis are incapable of self rule?
    Long in short, there is no such thing as Iraq for these people; the term "Iraqi" means nothing to them. Ergo, without a national identity, they will just fall back on who they are... Sunni fighting Shia.

  7. #567
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    Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    So you are cool then with the brutal acts Assad committed that is what ultimately led to the Civil War that is occurring today? Why do people keep forgetting the Arab Spring?



    Long in short, there is no such thing as Iraq for these people; the term "Iraqi" means nothing to them. Ergo, without a national identity, they will just fall back on who they are... Sunni fighting Shia.
    We're talking about the best way to defeat ISIS with the strategy the present has laid forth. I do not think Libya is better of today than it was under Qaddafi or for that matter Iraq under Saddam. What exactly has the Arab Spring brought us. An Egypt ruled by the military, Libya in chaos and turmoil with more fighting and death than before we disposed Qaddafi. Only that fighting and death is not on the news 24hours a day. A Syria that has spawned ISIS and other terrorist organization operating in Rebel held territory. We have an Iraq with about a quarter to a third of its territory controlled and run by ISIS. Constant war, at least Assad was not exporting terrorist or terrorism.

    Rulers of different countries can be despots, tryants, but they do help keep a lid on things and bring stability. Will we, the good old USA be better off is Assad is displaced with an Islamic Republic bent on destroying the infidels of the world? Is Libya better off without Qaddafi? Having a bunch of different tribes and terrorist organizations fighting each other for control of Libya, I think not.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    "Dubya" is no longer President,
    And if he never became Pres, the current mess in Iraq would never have occurred.

    But thanks to baby-minded voters (i. e. conservatives), he did, and now Iraq has to pay the price.

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    Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    We're talking about the best way to defeat ISIS with the strategy the present has laid forth. I do not think Libya is better of today than it was under Qaddafi or for that matter Iraq under Saddam. What exactly has the Arab Spring brought us. An Egypt ruled by the military, Libya in chaos and turmoil with more fighting and death than before we disposed Qaddafi. Only that fighting and death is not on the news 24hours a day. A Syria that has spawned ISIS and other terrorist organization operating in Rebel held territory. We have an Iraq with about a quarter to a third of its territory controlled and run by ISIS. Constant war, at least Assad was not exporting terrorist or terrorism.

    Rulers of different countries can be despots, tryants, but they do help keep a lid on things and bring stability. Will we, the good old USA be better off is Assad is displaced with an Islamic Republic bent on destroying the infidels of the world? Is Libya better off without Qaddafi? Having a bunch of different tribes and terrorist organizations fighting each other for control of Libya, I think not.
    So, to summarize, yes, your cool with supporting ruthless dictators in the middle east who brutalize their own people. Incidentally, after seeing what Arabs do with democracy, I'm sort of inclined to agree. But I do think it's important that we accept this reality, so that when inevitably, the next Shah of Iran scenario occurs, we're not caught blind-sighted.

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    And if he never became Pres, the current mess in Iraq would never have occurred.

    But thanks to baby-minded voters (i. e. conservatives), he did, and now Iraq has to pay the price.
    Oh yeah, cause it's not like a democrat has never attacked Iraq... oh wait...

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    Re: US Airstrikes Under Way in Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    And if he never became Pres, the current mess in Iraq would never have occurred.

    But thanks to baby-minded voters (i. e. conservatives), he did, and now Iraq has to pay the price.
    And if Obama never became Pres, losing the Peace in Iraq would never have occurred.

    But thanks to baby-minded voters (i. e. liberals), he did, and now Iraq has to pay the price.

    See how easy this is?

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