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Thread: Turkish hostages held by IS in Iraq released

  1. #21
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    Re: Turkish hostages held by IS in Iraq released

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    No mention of 500 pounders? That's the meat and potatoes of air strikes! If you ever see pics of ground crews loading aircraft that's mostly what you will see.

    You need to be patient grasshoppa. We can't do this overnight.

    Seriously we don't have any advisors with the native troops? You really believe that?

    My dad trained batalions of Khmer Rouge in Cambodia on his second deployment during Vietnam. Of course we were never there. LOL
    Oh, The Khmer Rouge were the bad guys, Pol Pot, the commies etc. The Killing Fields. I suspect you mean Lon Nol and your dad was probably with MEDT-C.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Turkish hostages held by IS in Iraq released

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Oh, The Khmer Rouge were the bad guys, Pol Pot, the commies etc. The Killing Fields. I suspect you mean Lon Nol and your dad was probably with MEDT-C.
    Oh yeah they were the bad guys later on but we trained and armed them to attack the NVA that were using Cambodia as a staging grounds into South Vietnam. My dad says they were so young and small their guns dragged in the mud behind them. When you train young boys to be killers, Pol Pot and the Killing Fields is what you reap.

    Not sure you will find much but my dad was Special Forces CCN while in Cambodia.

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    Re: Turkish hostages held by IS in Iraq released

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    Oh yeah they were the bad guys later on but we trained and armed them to attack the NVA that were using Cambodia as a staging grounds into South Vietnam. My dad says they were so young and small their guns dragged in the mud behind them. When you train young boys to be killers, Pol Pot and the Killing Fields is what you reap.

    Not sure you will find much but my dad was Special Forces CCN while in Cambodia.
    I find that strange. We backed Lon Nol in Cambodia after he over threw Prince Norodom Sihanouk either in 1969 or early 1970. We then brought up MEDT-C, first headquartered in Saigon and then in Phnom Penh itself to assist Lon Nol in his fight against the KR or Khmer Rouge which were the commie bad guys. MEDT-C as active in Cambodia until April of 1975 when Pol Pot and his Khmer Rouge finally captured Phnom Penh.

    As for CCN and what they did in Cambodia, I am really not familiar with that. For my first 4 years in Southeast Asia was with JUSMAGTHAI and then with Project 404 in Laos, May of 1967 thru May of 1971. I had nothing to do with Vietnam. Thailand and Laos were my areas of operation. My time in Vietnam was from May of 1971 to March of 1973 at which time I went back to JUSMAGTHAI until July of 1976.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Turkish hostages held by IS in Iraq released

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    They always say that.

    It worked in the former Yugoslavia didn't it? I seem to remember we didn't have boots on the ground and lost not one soldier.

    And do you recall the Iraqi troops begging to surrender during Desert Storm after being pummeled in their bunkers?
    Do you recall the infantry mopping up?

    The point being, you can't win a war with air alone.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Turkish hostages held by IS in Iraq released

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    Oh yeah they were the bad guys later on but we trained and armed them to attack the NVA that were using Cambodia as a staging grounds into South Vietnam. My dad says they were so young and small their guns dragged in the mud behind them. When you train young boys to be killers, Pol Pot and the Killing Fields is what you reap.

    Not sure you will find much but my dad was Special Forces CCN while in Cambodia.
    The Khmer Rouge was allied with the North Vietnamese. We never worked with the Khmer Rouge.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Turkish hostages held by IS in Iraq released

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Khmer Rouge was allied with the North Vietnamese. We never worked with the Khmer Rouge.
    That's not really true.

    China was a bigger supporter of the Khmer Rouge and remember it was the Vietnamese who eventually took them out.

    Once the Vietnamese invaded (supported by the Soviet Union), China launched an invasion of North Vietnam, China the USA and a few others supported the Cambodian government in exile which did include the Khmer Rouge.

    I know you only like rosy tinted visions of the past, but the fact of the matter is for better or worst, the US has supported some pretty grizzly characters.

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    Re: Turkish hostages held by IS in Iraq released

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    I have said all along, the middle east is not the area of my expertise. Let's say I am just a casual observer. I can understand them being upset by not being considered part of Europe. But they really never was, Europe ends at Istanbul and the middle east begins. Now I do not know what can be done about that. Perhaps it all goes back to the Ottoman's, Muslim vs. Europe, Christian.

    The Turks are not Arab and neither is Iran. But they do have the same religion and perhaps the slight from Europe and probably the Arabs may be bringing Iran and Turkey closer together. Who knows. But anything I say is pure speculation. But as for ISIS, it is understandable if any nation choose not to follow us when they see that we are only going in half way and really no commitment to make sure the job gets finished. The only real commitment it seems when it comes to ISIS is no boots on the ground. So perhaps the big question is, what will our half commitment accomplish? Is half a commitment good enough to get others to go along. Some have, but with a half commitment one shouldn't expect everyone to just jump into the pool.

    I am not sure we even know what we want to accomplish when it comes to ISIS.
    I had the pleasure of visiting Istanbul of a few days about 5 years ago. What a fascinating place. You do feel like you are 1/2 in a modern European city and 1/2 in the middle east. That said, I think Turkey is the real 'swing state' in the battle against ISIS. They are certainly do what they feel is best for Turkey, which might include staying far away from the US position on this.

    What we are dealing with right now is an incredible mess. I am afraid without substantive middle east participation (established middle east governments committing substantial men with guns) this is doomed for failure. You can not win a war with air strikes alone. If the US commits troops without middle eastern participation, you might have some short-term success, but you are more likely to have long-term failure (and likely make matters worse). "Middle East participation" does not mean "moderate rebels" in Syria (whatever a moderate rebel is?). They have their issues and we will never know what side they are on. There is a substantial risk with them that they take our guns and money and we later find those guns pointed at us (... see Afghan Army). IMHO, if the Turks and Saudis don't own this, its a lost cause and we should stand clear.

    I am struck about how similar the arguments for war (ok, military assistance) are now as they were in 2003... lots of fear mongering, a coalition of the willing (which means token participation by others) and a naive suggestion that American's won't have to get dirty (or killed)...
    Last edited by upsideguy; 09-20-14 at 05:12 PM.

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    Re: Turkish hostages held by IS in Iraq released

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    I find that strange. We backed Lon Nol in Cambodia after he over threw Prince Norodom Sihanouk either in 1969 or early 1970. We then brought up MEDT-C, first headquartered in Saigon and then in Phnom Penh itself to assist Lon Nol in his fight against the KR or Khmer Rouge which were the commie bad guys. MEDT-C as active in Cambodia until April of 1975 when Pol Pot and his Khmer Rouge finally captured Phnom Penh.

    As for CCN and what they did in Cambodia, I am really not familiar with that. For my first 4 years in Southeast Asia was with JUSMAGTHAI and then with Project 404 in Laos, May of 1967 thru May of 1971. I had nothing to do with Vietnam. Thailand and Laos were my areas of operation. My time in Vietnam was from May of 1971 to March of 1973 at which time I went back to JUSMAGTHAI until July of 1976.
    If it helps i can find out exactly when that was. It was 70 to 71 I think, but i could be off a year or two. It doesn't surprise me if you didn't know much about it. We were never officially there IIRR.

  9. #29
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    Re: Turkish hostages held by IS in Iraq released

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Do you recall the infantry mopping up?

    The point being, you can't win a war with air alone.
    Sure. But I also remember reading in history books when planes and tanks were poo pooed by the alleged experts.

  10. #30
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    Re: Turkish hostages held by IS in Iraq released

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Khmer Rouge was allied with the North Vietnamese. We never worked with the Khmer Rouge.
    Are you calling me a liar along with my father?

    Perhaps the KR were allied with the Chinese at some point but not when my dad was training battalions of them.
    Last edited by EnigmaO01; 09-20-14 at 05:26 PM.

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