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Thread: Turkish hostages held by IS in Iraq released

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    Re: Turkish hostages held by IS in Iraq released

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    I have said all along, the middle east is not the area of my expertise. Let's say I am just a casual observer. I can understand them being upset by not being considered part of Europe. But they really never was, Europe ends at Istanbul and the middle east begins. Now I do not know what can be done about that. Perhaps it all goes back to the Ottoman's, Muslim vs. Europe, Christian.

    The Turks are not Arab and neither is Iran. But they do have the same religion and perhaps the slight from Europe and probably the Arabs may be bringing Iran and Turkey closer together. Who knows. But anything I say is pure speculation. But as for ISIS, it is understandable if any nation choose not to follow us when they see that we are only going in half way and really no commitment to make sure the job gets finished. The only real commitment it seems when it comes to ISIS is no boots on the ground. So perhaps the big question is, what will our half commitment accomplish? Is half a commitment good enough to get others to go along. Some have, but with a half commitment one shouldn't expect everyone to just jump into the pool.

    I am not sure we even know what we want to accomplish when it comes to ISIS.
    You make some good points concerning this administrations goals with ISIS, or lack thereof, but the point I think I am trying to make is how Turkey has for some time now been leaning more toward Islam in this overall fight against the radicals....If Turkey is making a decision to join more on the side of the ME, let them have it, and not be a member of NATO any longer. They can't have it both ways.
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    Re: Turkish hostages held by IS in Iraq released

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    My guess is those of you that think the air strikes are minor wouldn't think so when the 500 pounders start falling on or near your position. Having loaded and armed fighter jets I wouldn't want to be within a mile of that ordinance. The ol' man that called in air strikes to the perimeter of his Special Forces camps in Vietnam says he had to hold on to something they make the ground shake so much. Both of my parents have experienced bombs and mortars and say there is nothing to compare it to. My mother experienced it in WWII as a little girl. Even had an allied fighter pilot strafe her as she ran with her mother.

    So far, the military experts all say that airstrikes alone will not get the job done.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Turkish hostages held by IS in Iraq released

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    My guess is those of you that think the air strikes are minor wouldn't think so when the 500 pounders start falling on or near your position. Having loaded and armed fighter jets I wouldn't want to be within a mile of that ordinance. The ol' man that called in air strikes to the perimeter of his Special Forces camps in Vietnam says he had to hold on to something they make the ground shake so much. Both of my parents have experienced bombs and mortars and say there is nothing to compare it to. My mother experienced it in WWII as a little girl. Even had an allied fighter pilot strafe her as she ran with her mother.
    I haven't said anything about 500 pound bombs, being minor or major or in-between. I don't know where you got that from. I will say this, if the strategy of air strikes along with having indigenous troops on the ground do all the fighting, it can work. That is if you have competent indigenous troops. It has been proven in the past, first in Laos and second in Afghanistan. In Laos we had the Royal Lao Army, not very good bordering on incompetent, then the mountain tribes such as the Hmong, Karen, Kha, etc which were very good. Our Air power and those troops battled the NVA and PL to a stalemate. In Afghanistan, the Northern Alliance troops on the ground and our air power drove out the Taliban. Granted we had some SF and paramilitary on the ground with the Northern Alliance. Now I am not talking nation building here, just the initial war before that nation building stuff started.

    The problem today with ISIS is we have no competent indigenous troops. We also do not have advisers with the native troops which probably should be down to at least Battalion level.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Turkish hostages held by IS in Iraq released

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    You make some good points concerning this administrations goals with ISIS, or lack thereof, but the point I think I am trying to make is how Turkey has for some time now been leaning more toward Islam in this overall fight against the radicals....If Turkey is making a decision to join more on the side of the ME, let them have it, and not be a member of NATO any longer. They can't have it both ways.
    I understand and agree that either Turkey remain loyal to NATO or go. But sitting out one operation, ISIS does not mean Turkey is disloyal to NATO or America. As I stated they are doing their share as for arming the Syrian Rebels and training them. However many countries are in NATO now, how many are now on board to participate against ISIS militarily? I do not know, but I would be surprised if the total comes to half.

    But if Turkey chooses to switch loyalty to the ME and other Muslim countries instead of NATO, sure it is time for them to go.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Turkish hostages held by IS in Iraq released

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    I am sure Turkey sees it the same way. Now they are willing to ship arms to the Syrian Rebels and help in their training. But even so, I am sure Turkey weighed the risks vs. the potential reward and decided to stay out of the ISIS mess
    Turkey has a problem with native Kurds and the enemy of your enemy is your friend. It is that simple I'm afraid.

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    Re: Turkish hostages held by IS in Iraq released

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Turkey has a problem with native Kurds and the enemy of your enemy is your friend. It is that simple I'm afraid.
    Could be. Like most I like to read a heck of a lot more into things than which really might be there. It is good to remember the KISS principal.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Turkish hostages held by IS in Iraq released

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So far, the military experts all say that airstrikes alone will not get the job done.
    They always say that.

    It worked in the former Yugoslavia didn't it? I seem to remember we didn't have boots on the ground and lost not one soldier.

    And do you recall the Iraqi troops begging to surrender during Desert Storm after being pummeled in their bunkers?

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    Re: Turkish hostages held by IS in Iraq released

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Could be. Like most I like to read a heck of a lot more into things than which really might be there. It is good to remember the KISS principal.
    i think there is an emerging NISAIS Principle.
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    Re: Turkish hostages held by IS in Iraq released

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    I haven't said anything about 500 pound bombs, being minor or major or in-between. I don't know where you got that from. I will say this, if the strategy of air strikes along with having indigenous troops on the ground do all the fighting, it can work. That is if you have competent indigenous troops. It has been proven in the past, first in Laos and second in Afghanistan. In Laos we had the Royal Lao Army, not very good bordering on incompetent, then the mountain tribes such as the Hmong, Karen, Kha, etc which were very good. Our Air power and those troops battled the NVA and PL to a stalemate. In Afghanistan, the Northern Alliance troops on the ground and our air power drove out the Taliban. Granted we had some SF and paramilitary on the ground with the Northern Alliance. Now I am not talking nation building here, just the initial war before that nation building stuff started.

    The problem today with ISIS is we have no competent indigenous troops. We also do not have advisers with the native troops which probably should be down to at least Battalion level.
    No mention of 500 pounders? That's the meat and potatoes of air strikes! If you ever see pics of ground crews loading aircraft that's mostly what you will see.

    You need to be patient grasshoppa. We can't do this overnight.

    Seriously we don't have any advisors with the native troops? You really believe that?

    My dad trained batalions of Khmer Rouge in Cambodia on his second deployment during Vietnam. Of course we were never there. LOL

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    Re: Turkish hostages held by IS in Iraq released

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    They always say that.

    It worked in the former Yugoslavia didn't it? I seem to remember we didn't have boots on the ground and lost not one soldier.

    And do you recall the Iraqi troops begging to surrender during Desert Storm after being pummeled in their bunkers?
    So, two weeks ago (that is metaphorically speaking, I am not sure when he said it), Obama said that the FSA was compiled of Doctors, and Pharmacists, and all of the sudden they are capable of taking the fight to ISIS? What changed?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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