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Thread: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install sol

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    Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    So do I. One reason is that this is now a matter of national security.

    A few years ago I spent a couple of memorable hours in my office with Bill Forstchen, the author of One Second After, and I try not to think about the potential consequences of an EMP, natural or an attack--the end of the world as we know it.
    i'm sure that was an interesting conversation.

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    Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

    Quote Originally Posted by LagerHead View Post
    You're adding things to the cost that don't even play into this equation. We're only talking about money that is taken from taxpayers and given to the oil companies. That's what a subsidy is. If solar power is so incredibly kick-ass and affordable, it really doesn't need to be subsidized. The only reason oil companies receive these large subsidies is that your politicians are for sale. It certainly isn't because they need it to keep prices down.
    That's the definition of direct subsidy, but that's hardly the only way industry is subsidized in this country. Heck, if I'm a company and I can legally offload pollution costs that cost $30B or $300B per year in healthcare costs, that's a massive subsidy versus solar which (other than during manufacturing) has zero pollution and zero healthcare related costs.

    Or, if you prefer, that's the oil industry privatizing profits and socializing $300 billion per year in costs. Same effect, different name. Whether we pay for it with taxes, or higher healthcare costs, we're still paying for the costs of pollution.

    And certainly the military costs related to protecting oil supplies in the ME is a direct taxpayer outlay. I'm not sure how to separate the War on Terror versus our meddling around there because of huge oil supplies, but no one would claim the costs related to oil are less than at least $10s, likely $100s of billions PER YEAR.

    Bottom line, solar should compete on a level playing field with alternatives and it doesn't. Neither does wind, geothermal.

    Nuclear power is another topic - it wouldn't exist in the U.S. without taxpayer guarantees for the loans - the losses against nuclear accidents are uninsurable in the marketplace, so taxpayers provide those guarantees. It's priceless!!....

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    Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Read more @: [/FONT][/COLOR]
    White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install solar panels

    I can not say how much I love this program! Job training, new jobs, and green energy! This is a great program, and I cannot think why anyone ccouldbe against this!
    the only problem is solar panels when concentrated create extreme amounts of heat,which is bad for wildlife,so they would need to be spaced out.another problem is cost to benefit,solar is more feasable when powering small buildins cheaply,but costs rise quickly with larger buildings,hence why most people who adopt them live in small houses and cabins.

    another issue is sunlight,much of the country doesnt have enough constant sunlight to make solar panels efficient.

    at the end of the day they should have focused on a combination of solar,wind,and hydro instead of putting all their eggs in one basket.
    “[The metric system is the tool of the Devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead, and that’s the way I likes it!” – Abe “Grampa” Simpson”

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    Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

    Quote Originally Posted by beerftw View Post
    the only problem is solar panels when concentrated create extreme amounts of heat,which is bad for wildlife,so they would need to be spaced out.another problem is cost to benefit,solar is more feasable when powering small buildins cheaply,but costs rise quickly with larger buildings,hence why most people who adopt them live in small houses and cabins.

    another issue is sunlight,much of the country doesnt have enough constant sunlight to make solar panels efficient.

    at the end of the day they should have focused on a combination of solar,wind,and hydro instead of putting all their eggs in one basket.
    The other problem with solar is that it's not up to an acceptable efficiency yet. It has it's uses at this level, but it's not a replacement. I very much agree with that last, except coal, oil and gas need to be added as well. The so-called "green technologies" aren't yet ready to stand on their own.

    Storage and transmission are still the major stumbling blocks, not generation.

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    Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    The other problem with solar is that it's not up to an acceptable efficiency yet. It has it's uses at this level, but it's not a replacement. I very much agree with that last, except coal, oil and gas need to be added as well. The so-called "green technologies" aren't yet ready to stand on their own.

    Storage and transmission are still the major stumbling blocks, not generation.
    oil coal and gas are already used,the three green energies would be used to reduce the primary sources of energy.

    but at this time your right,they cant run anything by themselves hardly.like i said with solar,alot of those using it are people with small cabins,those people find a 4k system with a battery bank cheaper than running power lines to the middle of nowhere.but even those people still have gas or diesel generators as a few cloudy days could kill their power.


    palm springs cali got it right,they use windmills,and gas generators,when the windmills fail to generate enough power,the gas generators pick up the slack.

    and yes storage is a major problem,with a small house deep cycle batteries could be used with no problems,but for lets say a city,there is no efficient way to store that much power,and i cant see a cities power plant stocking 20 million deep cycle batteries either.
    “[The metric system is the tool of the Devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead, and that’s the way I likes it!” – Abe “Grampa” Simpson”

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    Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

    Quote Originally Posted by beerftw View Post
    oil coal and gas are already used,the three green energies would be used to reduce the primary sources of energy.

    but at this time your right,they cant run anything by themselves hardly.like i said with solar,alot of those using it are people with small cabins,those people find a 4k system with a battery bank cheaper than running power lines to the middle of nowhere.but even those people still have gas or diesel generators as a few cloudy days could kill their power.


    palm springs cali got it right,they use windmills,and gas generators,when the windmills fail to generate enough power,the gas generators pick up the slack.

    and yes storage is a major problem,with a small house deep cycle batteries could be used with no problems,but for lets say a city,there is no efficient way to store that much power,and i cant see a cities power plant stocking 20 million deep cycle batteries either.
    Well, the substations already do on that last. Really, we're still using the same tech we developed a couple thousand years ago for storage. We've barely improved on it. And transmission is a nightmare. 47% loss in transmission.

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    Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

    Quote Originally Posted by beerftw View Post
    the only problem is solar panels when concentrated create extreme amounts of heat,which is bad for wildlife,so they would need to be spaced out.another problem is cost to benefit,solar is more feasable when powering small buildins cheaply,but costs rise quickly with larger buildings,hence why most people who adopt them live in small houses and cabins.

    another issue is sunlight,much of the country doesnt have enough constant sunlight to make solar panels efficient.
    Quote Originally Posted by beerftw View Post
    but at this time your right,they cant run anything by themselves hardly.
    Boy, that is some dumb **** right there.

    First, solar panels do not heat up enough to harm wildlife. That's wingnut talk right there. They're usually put on roofs which are......wait for it.....usually black. Matte black, so they heat up more than the solar panels which are blue or black AND SHINY!!! (Hint: "shiny" means "reflective")

    And costs don't rise for a large building. Costs rise for power usage. The reason why solar is more common in low-rise building is because the roof to power usage ratio is much higher.

    And most of the country does get enough sunlight to make them feasible. The problem is the low cost of coal generated power, which makes solar expensive in comparison.

    Finally, there's nothing that can be powered by conventional sources of electicity that can't be powered by electricity generated by solar. There's nothing different about the electricity generated by a solar system. It's the same electricity
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    Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

    Yes, and by the time it's over, it will be a multi billion dollar money pit.

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    Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    So do I. One reason is that this is now a matter of national security.

    A few years ago I spent a couple of memorable hours in my office with Bill Forstchen, the author of One Second After, and I try not to think about the potential consequences of an EMP, natural or an attack--the end of the world as we know it.
    Greetings, nota bene.

    That was one of the scariest books I have ever read, in terms of possibility of occurrence! Experts have been warning about this for a long time because of general grid aging - now we get to add terrorists to that list! With all the unemployed we have, why isn't there a nationwide program to fix it, by putting them to work? The grid isn't an optional thing - we all depend on it! Instead we send money to countries who hate us. We'd better buy horses, or bikes that we pedal, if we intend to go anywhere, because without electricity gas stations won't be working - as the Great Blackout of 2003 showed us. And that was only for one day! What's it going to be like if it takes weeks or months to repair things?

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    Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    You know, I find it very interesting that the people who scream the loudest about how bad the country needs jobs are also the same people who complain when any initiative is fostered to spur job growth.

    I get that such people don't like unions, but unless other industries are willing to move forward with initiatives to create new jobs especially where opening up new industries is concerned, I don't have a problem with the government taking the lead in partnership with unions to train our veterans in growth industries at good pay.
    By itself that's a fair point, but it is also a fair question to ask where the demand is for so many trained installers. Ok, so we train all these people to install solar panel... then what? Unless the government is going to purchase and supply solar panels to random people, who will be paying for them and where will they be installed?
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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