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Thread: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install sol

  1. #101
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    Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Whether you support it or not, we ARE subsidizing oil and gas by $10s or hundreds of $billions per year, every year, and have for many decades. So either need to raise gas taxes by a huge amount to cover the direct and indirect oil subsidies, or solar is operating at a huge competitive disadvantage to heavily subsidized oil and gas.
    That's nice, so? Sounds like a product not ready to compete on the market. You compete on the market you have, not the one you dream off. Solar needs to be more efficient to compete. It's not. Not yet at least.

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    Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    That's nice, so? Sounds like a product not ready to compete on the market. You compete on the market you have, not the one you dream off. Solar needs to be more efficient to compete. It's not. Not yet at least.
    OK, so you're for Uncle Sugar Daddy picking and winners and losers, with $trillions in cumulative subsidies for fossil fuels, at least $10s of billions, almost surely $100s of billions, PER YEAR in subsidies. Good to know, but I disagree.

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    Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    Yes, if we wanted solar panels, we would demand them. We certainly don't need the government getting involved and training people, putting our money into these companies, and then having them fail and lose our money because there is no demand! I just can't believe they are pulling this crap again. I DON'T WANT THE GOVERNMENT INVESTING MY TAX DOLLARS IN SOLAR PANELS!

    One, they don't know what the hell they are doing, and two, they already tried and failed. So what, they are doing the same thing again? I know Obama is an idiot, but jeez.
    One way to make sure a government program last forever and each year you get more money for that program is for it not to work. Then the government figures it would work if only more money was applied or given to it and hence, failure is rewarded more and more as time goes by.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Whether you support it or not, we ARE subsidizing oil and gas by $10s or hundreds of $billions per year, every year, and have for many decades. So either need to raise gas taxes by a huge amount to cover the direct and indirect oil subsidies, or solar is operating at a huge competitive disadvantage to heavily subsidized oil and gas.
    I realize those subsides exist. I also realize they shouldn't. I don't support one wrong thing just because another wrong thing exists, though. Corporate subsidies need to go the way of the Dodo, period.

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    Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

    Quote Originally Posted by LagerHead View Post
    I realize those subsides exist. I also realize they shouldn't. I don't support one wrong thing just because another wrong thing exists, though. Corporate subsidies need to go the way of the Dodo, period.
    [Edit - sorry, confused you with clownboy in this response - my apologies... ]

    But you can't recognize the subsidies exist then claim that solar can't compete. Of course it can't - not with the subsidies of solar's competitor.

    And if you say the subsidies shouldn't exist then you must support measures that would end the subsidies. The only way I know of to offset the oil subsidies, for example, is to levy a very large tax on gasoline, similar to levels seen in Europe, to capture the negative externalities of oil in our economy. That would level the playing field.

    Or we could subsidize solar. And given the huge negative and regressive impact of a large gas tax increase on the poor and working and middle classes, I'd far prefer reasonable subsidies of solar and other alternatives as those energy sources get ramped up so that economies of scale emerge sooner rather than later.

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    Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    [Edit - sorry, confused you with clownboy in this response - my apologies... ]

    But you can't recognize the subsidies exist then claim that solar can't compete. Of course it can't - not with the subsidies of solar's competitor.

    And if you say the subsidies shouldn't exist then you must support measures that would end the subsidies. The only way I know of to offset the oil subsidies, for example, is to levy a very large tax on gasoline, similar to levels seen in Europe, to capture the negative externalities of oil in our economy. That would level the playing field.

    Or we could subsidize solar. And given the huge negative and regressive impact of a large gas tax increase on the poor and working and middle classes, I'd far prefer reasonable subsidies of solar and other alternatives as those energy sources get ramped up so that economies of scale emerge sooner rather than later.
    LOL !!

    Solar can't compete with MASSIVE amounts of Subsidies with or without its "competitor".

    Hell just look at the absolute disaster Germany's Green energy " revolution " has become

    Solar is subsidized directly by the Government and the German citizens.

    To the point where the average German citizen pays 300 percent more for their electricity than Americans do.

    GREEN ENERGY is such a worthless technology.

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    Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    [Edit - sorry, confused you with clownboy in this response - my apologies... ]

    But you can't recognize the subsidies exist then claim that solar can't compete. Of course it can't - not with the subsidies of solar's competitor.
    Then it's a good thing that I didn't say that.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    And if you say the subsidies shouldn't exist then you must support measures that would end the subsidies. The only way I know of to offset the oil subsidies, for example, is to levy a very large tax on gasoline, similar to levels seen in Europe, to capture the negative externalities of oil in our economy. That would level the playing field.
    By "offset the oil subsidies" I assume that you mean in such a way that gas prices stay the same, or pretty darn close to it. If I am wrong, stop reading here.

    The US subsidizes the oil industry to the tune of about $4 - 4.5 billion/year. Considering that in 2013 the US consumed approximately 6.89 billion barrels of oil, that works out to about $1.53 per barrel, or about $0.04/gallon (6.89 billion barrels/$4.5 billion = 1.53 & 1.53/42 gallons per barrel = 0.036, rounded up to $0.04 per gallon). I'm all for it. Let's raise the price of gas 4 cents per gallon and stop picking winners and losers.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Or we could subsidize solar.
    Or we could subsidize neither, give the money back to those to whom it belongs in the first place, i.e. those who worked and earned it, and let them, i.e. the market pick the winner. Pretty radical idea, huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    And given the huge negative and regressive impact of a large gas tax increase on the poor and working and middle classes, I'd far prefer reasonable subsidies of solar and other alternatives as those energy sources get ramped up so that economies of scale emerge sooner rather than later.
    Well, since I don't think that increase would be that much using the math shown above, I say we stop subsidizing...well, everything.

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    Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    sounds good. beats spending tax dollars on endless war.
    This what you call throwing good money after bad, a government speciality. Only made possible by people who think it is a good idea.
    "We have met the enemy and they are ours..." -- Oliver Hazard Perry
    "I don't want a piece of you... I want the whole thing!" -- Bob Barker

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    Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

    Quote Originally Posted by LagerHead View Post
    The US subsidizes the oil industry to the tune of about $4 - 4.5 billion/year. Considering that in 2013 the US consumed approximately 6.89 billion barrels of oil, that works out to about $1.53 per barrel, or about $0.04/gallon (6.89 billion barrels/$4.5 billion = 1.53 & 1.53/42 gallons per barrel = 0.036, rounded up to $0.04 per gallon). I'm all for it. Let's raise the price of gas 4 cents per gallon and stop picking winners and losers.
    I don't think that's a fair accounting at all. The health costs alone from pollution caused by burning fossil fuels is estimated to be between $300B-$800B per YEAR. If the 'real' costs are only 1/10th that, that's 60-160 Solyndra's per year in subsidies. And surely you'd concede some large amount of the cost of our ME adventures is tied directly to that regions status as a major oil producer and so are indirect subsidies of fossil fuels.

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    Re: White House announces plan to train 50,000 people, including veterans, to install

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    You don't have to look as far as Germany - just look north to Ontario, Canada, where our idiotic government has gone full in on solar and wind power, plastering giant wind monstrosities where nobody wants them, paying exorbitant rates to those willing to foul their land with the things, increasing our electricity rates by double and triple with increases projected out for years, mothballing all coal plants claiming that solar and wind will replace that production yet having to build new gas fired plants all over the place because solar and wind aren't reliable, selling off excess power at a loss to neighbouring jurisdictions because of commitments to pay for solar and wind first even if it's not needed, and driving manufacturing out of the province because electricity rates are no long competitive in a province where electricity rates were always an asset.

    It is absolute lunacy.
    This is true... even though the tech to have 99.9% clean burning coal, where we have supplies that could power the world with the stuff for centuries rather than forcing the boondoggles that have come from green energy. The fact is that solar power, especially in Canada, is a lost cause...

    Would be better off aiming for geothermal... or nuclear, if they can fight the urge to put them on fault lines.

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