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Thread: Scotland Rejects Independence From Britain in a Close Vote

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    Re: Scotland Rejects Independence From Britain in a Close Vote

    This shows what happens after generations have been subjugated and become emotionally dependent on their oppressor. It is why they lowered the voting age for this to 16 so they could squeeze out the last few needed votes.

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    Re: Scotland Rejects Independence From Britain in a Close Vote

    The "extra" voters mainly voted no. So much for the Stockhausen theory.
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    Re: Scotland Rejects Independence From Britain in a Close Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    The "extra" voters mainly voted no. So much for the Stockhausen theory.
    Stockhausen theory? What's that? You don't mean Stockholm Syndrome, do you?
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    Re: Scotland Rejects Independence From Britain in a Close Vote

    A froodian slip!
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    Re: Scotland Rejects Independence From Britain in a Close Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Levying and collecting taxes?
    Quite a bit of that is done on regional level already. Guess you could do income taxes as well, but that would cause problems with money flows to other regions and so on.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Scotland Rejects Independence From Britain in a Close Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    It's political immaturity to do what the PP in Spain are doing and say, despite the very clear will of a very large portion of Catalan society, "it's not for you to decide, it's for all of Spain, because that's what the constitution says."
    I don't agree. Spain's future is up to all of its people, not any single segment. All of Spain's people would be impacted on the issue as to whether Spain continues as a single entity and, therefore, it is unfair to deprive them of their voice over such a consequential decison. If, as was the case in the UK, the large majority of all of Spain's people are willing to grant any ethnic group the chance to leave Spain, then that's also their choice.

    However, there should be a broad consensus among all of Spain's people on appropriate constitutional or legal framework or processes to deal with vital issues related to whether or not Spain continues as a single country. Otherwise, if every group were automatically afforded the chance to secede, the most extreme faction(s) would be in a disproportionately strong position to break up established states and such states would be inherently unstable entities.

    I'm not sure how Spain's constitution handles such matters. The constitutional process should be respected. Broad consensus among Spain's people (maybe 2/3 or more, but the threshold would have to be defined by Spain's people not any single group) would allow for appropriate constitutional changes. Indecisive outcomes would not and they should not. The continuity of states and the viability of constitutional frameworks are not light matters. Therefore, a large consensus should be a requirement before such grave matters are dealt with.

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    Re: Scotland Rejects Independence From Britain in a Close Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    How come I post this first and you still get more posts?

    People like you more I guess
    I had no idea, so I went and looked. I think it had to do with the thread titles, not the person posting it.
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    Re: Scotland Rejects Independence From Britain in a Close Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    What does this mean to America?
    That our closest ally and friend in the world will not go through a messy and disruptive break-up. And maybe, that Texas needs to be careful how they proceed, and not allow 16 year olds to vote on succession?
    Everything in your life is a reflection of a choice you have made. If you want a different result, don't blame someone else, or expect others to make a change, you should stop complaining and make a different choice. Remember, the circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcome of your life.

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    Re: Scotland Rejects Independence From Britain in a Close Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    I had no idea, so I went and looked. I think it had to do with the thread titles, not the person posting it.
    Don't lie to me! We all know it's cause your prettier! :P

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    Re: Scotland Rejects Independence From Britain in a Close Vote

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    If, as was the case in the UK, the large majority of all of Spain's people are willing to grant any ethnic group the chance to leave Spain, then that's also their choice.
    That wasn't the case in the UK. No one asked the people of the UK. It was a decision taken purely by politicians, just as no one is asking the people of Spain.

    However, there should be a broad consensus among all of Spain's people on appropriate constitutional or legal framework or processes to deal with vital issues related to whether or not Spain continues as a single country. Otherwise, if every group were automatically afforded the chance to secede, the most extreme faction(s) would be in a disproportionately strong position to break up established states and such states would be inherently unstable entities.
    A state that is forcing a region or constituent nation to remain within the state against the wishes of the people of that region is itself inherently unstable. It is being held together through coercion. We have already had the commander of the Guardia Civil (paramilitary police) stating that he believes that if called upon, he would be prepared to use any means necessary to prevent the Catalans holding a referendum.

    There is no broad consensus of the appropriate constitutional and legal framework for the future. The Catalans are being forcibly prevented from expressing their democratic will.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

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