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States with higher minimum wage gain more jobs

TheDemSocialist

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WASHINGTON (AP) — Maybe a higher minimum wage isn't so bad for job growth after all.The 13 states that raised their minimum wages at the beginning of this year are adding jobs at a faster pace than those that did not, providing some counter-intuitive fuel to the debate over what impact a higher minimum has on hiring trends.
Many business groups argue that raising the minimum wage discourages job growth by increasing the cost of hiring. A Congressional Budget Office report earlier this year lent some support for that view. It found that a minimum wage of $10.10 an hour, as President Obama supports, could cost 500,000 jobs nationwide.
But the state-by-state hiring data, released Friday by the Labor Department, provides ammunition to those who disagree. Economists who support a higher minimum say the figures are encouraging, though they acknowledge they don't establish a cause and effect. There are many possible reasons hiring might accelerate in a particular state.


Read more @: States with higher minimum wage gain more jobs

More ammo to those who favor raising the wage. They were told if they raise the wage jobs would be loss, in seems that the opposite is happening. Those states who raised the wage are currently creating more jobs.
 
Argh. That is such a stupid red-herring. You can't just look at one factor and go HELL YA! you're all wrong. Economies are complex and there can be many factors that lead to a result. Furthermore, there is many things the government does that encourages and discourages employment that all need to be taken into account before any conclusion on the statistics presented is made.
 
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Read more @: States with higher minimum wage gain more jobs

More ammo to those who favor raising the wage. They were told if they raise the wage jobs would be loss, in seems that the opposite is happening. Those states who raised the wage are currently creating more jobs. [/FONT][/COLOR]

Like the article said, it's too early to draw any trend. For one thing, jobs have been growing everywhere, this isn't a phenomenon isolated to those who have raised wages. From the article:

Article said:
For example, the number of jobs in North Dakota — which didn't raise the minimum wage and has prospered because of a boom in oil and gas drilling — rose 2.8% since the start of this year, the most of any state.

But job growth in the aging industrial state of Ohio was just 0.7% after its minimum rose to $7.95 from $7.85. The federal minimum wage is $7.25.
 
Read more @: States with higher minimum wage gain more jobs

More ammo to those who favor raising the wage. They were told if they raise the wage jobs would be loss, in seems that the opposite is happening. Those states who raised the wage are currently creating more jobs. [/FONT][/COLOR]

Correlation does not equal causation.

Show us the reasons for the increase in jobs and you have a valid argument. But so far all you've shown us is basically two lines on a graph that match. Give me a little time and I'll use the same kind of logic to show that the height of the heels on women's shoes is what causes increases in terrorist attacks.
 
The article is pretty much summed up by it is to early to tell. I would be great to get some solid information on the cause and effects of minimum wage increases.
 
Never said raising the wage was the cause of the job growth. Stating that it did not cause job losses..

The statistic presented does not show that by itself. You're oversimplifying the issue to make the conclusion you want. It could very well be that raising the minimum wage was damaging to employment even if employment overall went up.
 
Sorry to drop a "common sense" bomb on this fine attempt to promote the socialist/progressive agenda, but forcing employers to increase the hourly wages they pay certain employees, will not result in an "increase" in job growth. The best possible scenario is that the increase would have little effect on the number of job losses.

Such an increase will effect mostly kids in high school and college, and won't create a wave of consumer spending that will require companies to engage in any major expansion. The adults the wage effects won't do much either. Even if it increases their wages by .75 cents an hour and they put in 30 to 40 hours a week, after taxes that might be $15 - $20 bucks a week. That's a six-pack and a pack of smokes, or maybe lets them buy a few name brands on their next trip to the grocery store.

No employers say to themselves "The new minimum wage just kicked in and my labor costs just went up 10%... That's so wonderful that I think I hire more people."
 
Sorry to drop a "common sense" bomb on this fine attempt to promote the socialist/progressive agenda, but forcing employers to increase the hourly wages they pay certain employees, will not result in an "increase" in job growth. The best possible scenario is that the increase would have little effect on the number of job losses.

Such an increase will effect mostly kids in high school and college, and won't create a wave of consumer spending that will require companies to engage in any major expansion. The adults the wage effects won't do much either. Even if it increases their wages by .75 cents an hour and they put in 30 to 40 hours a week, after taxes that might be $15 - $20 bucks a week. That's a six-pack and a pack of smokes, or maybe lets them buy a few name brands on their next trip to the grocery store.

No employers say to themselves "The new minimum wage just kicked in and my labor costs just went up 10%... That's so wonderful that I think I hire more people."

Not really. Higher wages likely would cause more spending which can lead to more jobs. In either case you can choose to dismiss the facts but states with higher minimum wages have better employment. And 13 states is good indication. Maybe there is another factor that all 13 of these states shared that the other 37 are missing, but I think that is unlikely. And at the very least, raising the minimum wage doesnt appear to be crippling these states like so many predicted.
 
Read more @: States with higher minimum wage gain more jobs

More ammo to those who favor raising the wage. They were told if they raise the wage jobs would be loss, in seems that the opposite is happening. Those states who raised the wage are currently creating more jobs. [/FONT][/COLOR]

USA Today said:
Economists who support a higher minimum say the figures are encouraging, though they acknowledge they don't establish a cause and effect. There are many possible reasons hiring might accelerate in a particular state.

:2razz:
 
Even that is unsupported by the data. There are a lot of factors and the MW is just ONE.

The data plus simple logic supports it though. Employers hire when they need help, a few dollars a day does not change that NEED.
 
The data plus simple logic supports it though. Employers hire when they need help, a few dollars a day does not change that NEED.
Small Business owners must weigh every dollar spent,
and justify it against profits. They may need the help, but that NEED could be satisfied through
technology. With the advent of the ipad, and other tablets, a Customer kiosk is just an application,
and some mounting hardware.
From self checkout at retail outlets to ordering at fast food places, these kiosks are coming already.
The more they make the cheaper and better they will get.
When the price of labor goes up, the price of the technology looks better.
Business owners are not in business to create jobs, but profits.
 
Small Business owners must weigh every dollar spent,
and justify it against profits. They may need the help, but that NEED could be satisfied through
technology. With the advent of the ipad, and other tablets, a Customer kiosk is just an application,
and some mounting hardware.
From self checkout at retail outlets to ordering at fast food places, these kiosks are coming already.
The more they make the cheaper and better they will get.
When the price of labor goes up, the price of the technology looks better.
Business owners are not in business to create jobs, but profits.

All those things happen no matter what wage costs are. Humans will never compete with machines but machines cannot replace humans in all areas.
You must like that the Govt. makes up the difference in low wage jobs with food stamps and Medicare. Those Govt. subsidies for corporations really save companies like Walmart lots of money. We all know how the Walton family is struggling. I'm sure they appreciate your tax money going to help them keep their wage costs low.
 
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All you guys on the right miss the OP entire point.

The fact that those 13 states had faster job growth than the other states debunked the myth from the right that increasing the minimum wage would hurt job growth.
 
All those things happen no matter what wage costs are. Humans will never compete with machines but machines cannot replace humans in all areas.
You must like that the Govt. makes up the difference in low wage jobs with food stamps and Medicare. Those Govt. subsidies for corporations really save companies like Walmart lots of money. We all know how the Walton family is struggling. I'm sure they appreciate your tax money going to help them keep their wage costs low.
Anytime the Government mandates someone pay more for a good or service that it is worth,
the net result to the person paying for the good or service is indistinguishable from a tax
 
All you guys on the right miss the OP entire point.

The fact that those 13 states had faster job growth than the other states debunked the myth from the right that increasing the minimum wage would hurt job growth.
Read the thread.
 
Argh. That is such a stupid red-herring. You can't just look at one factor and go HELL YA! you're all wrong. Economies are complex and there can be many factors that lead to a result. Furthermore, there is many things the government does that encourages and discourages employment that all need to be taken into account before any conclusion on the statistics presented is made.
So merely raising wages does not cause job as loss as those against minimum wage like to claim it does?
 
So merely raising wages does not cause job as loss as those against minimum wage like to claim it does?

The effects of the minimum wage are hard to measure due to so many other factors, and the debate over the positives and negatives of minimum wage are still very much debatable. Regardless, the majority of economists agree that minimum wage laws increase unemployment among low skilled workers.
 
The effects of the minimum wage are hard to measure due to so many other factors, and the debate over the positives and negatives of minimum wage are still very much debatable. Regardless, the majority of economists agree that minimum wage laws increase unemployment among low skilled workers.

Because there are other factors to consider then apparently most of those economists are wrong.Perhaps those economists were merely projecting their own anti-minimum wage bias into their opinions.
 
The data plus simple logic supports it though. Employers hire when they need help, a few dollars a day does not change that NEED.

The data doesn't support the assertion. It might, but there's no causation defined. Without a direct cause and effect all you have is coincidence. Show us a real cause and effect relationship and you could be making a point, but without that all you have is similar trends.
 
All you guys on the right miss the OP entire point.

The fact that those 13 states had faster job growth than the other states debunked the myth from the right that increasing the minimum wage would hurt job growth.

No, it didn't. It simply showed that someone can data mine and find two similar trends and claim a relationship exists. Show us the cause adn effect of the relationship and you have a valid argument, but wihtout that, all you have is an assumption.
 
The effects of the minimum wage are hard to measure due to so many other factors, and the debate over the positives and negatives of minimum wage are still very much debatable. Regardless, the majority of economists agree that minimum wage laws increase unemployment among low skilled workers.

Well, lets examine those claims then. For example, the CBO estimate rested on three fatally flawed assumptions:

1. That businesses would react to a minimum wage increase by terminating their minimum wage workers and shifting their workload to other employees who already earn more than minimum wage.
That businesses would react o a minimum wage increase by reducing their workforce.

OR

2. That businesses would react o a minimum wage increase by reducing their workforce.

OR

3. Some combination of the two.

All three scenarios make for an excellent theory but none of them are reflective of reality. You see, the problem is that the businesses we are talking about have a predominately minimum wage workforce so 1) They don't have high-wage employees waiting in the wings to shift the workload to and 2) Their bottom line depends on selling large quantities of cheap products which in turn depends on having a workforce large enough to accommodate those sales. Reducing their workforce and thereby reducing their sales and footprint would be more costly than paying a higher minimum wage.
 
Well, lets examine those claims then. For example, the CBO estimate rested on three fatally flawed assumptions:

1. That businesses would react to a minimum wage increase by terminating their minimum wage workers and shifting their workload to other employees who already earn more than minimum wage.
That businesses would react o a minimum wage increase by reducing their workforce.

OR

2. That businesses would react o a minimum wage increase by reducing their workforce.

OR

3. Some combination of the two.

All three scenarios make for an excellent theory but none of them are reflective of reality. You see, the problem is that the businesses we are talking about have a predominately minimum wage workforce so 1) They don't have high-wage employees waiting in the wings to shift the workload to and 2) Their bottom line depends on selling large quantities of cheap products which in turn depends on having a workforce large enough to accommodate those sales. Reducing their workforce and thereby reducing their sales and footprint would be more costly than paying a higher minimum wage.
You completely missed the most likely response.
Businesses react to the higher minimum wage, as an increase in the cost of goods sold, and increase their prices accordingly.
 
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