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McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a [W:391]

Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

Cephus said:
And whose fault is it that they didn't get an education and make good life decisions?
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Who are "they" and tell me a bit about their life?

But I get it - it's their fault so you have no obligation to them. Let them eat cake I guess.
 
Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

jmotivator said:
Justifying the opposition to automation because it has a negative effects on jobs is not unlike the Chinese guide in the story arguing that using construction equipment means you hire fewer laborers.

Also, having double digit unemployment is a BETTER argument for not pushing for $15 minimum wage than it is for not automating.
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I accept automation as inevitable - opposing that is like opposing a rising tide.

And as to your second point, as the supply of low skill labor goes up because of automation, "market" wages get further depressed. Others are blaming the poor for losing their jobs to automation and there not being other jobs for low skill workers to move into. But beyond that, is there any role for government or society? Or just let them beg like we've done for most of history. The problem exists now. Ignoring it or talking around it isn't an approach to dealing with it, neither is wishing they were all skilled, and were all above average intelligence, or all made excellent life choices.
 
Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

DA60 said:
'If you’ve ever felt guilty ordering at McDonald’s, the fast-food mega-chain has just the fix: You can now order your own quarter-pound bacon cheeseburger from a welcoming, non-judging machine.

Battling the worst sales slump in a decade and competition from build-your-own upstarts like Chipotle and Smashburger, McDonald’s is expanding a test concept built around ordering via tablet. Just tap on a screen and watch as your burger’s toppings (and calories) pile on, then wait for an employee to bring it over. No human interaction necessary.

McDonald’s move towards dehumanization, launched as a pilot last winter and expanded across San Diego last week, is part of a larger trend of chain eateries turning tablets into your full-time restaurant buddy: equal parts menu, server and paycheck. Applebee’s, Panera Bread and even airport bars have installed tablets to allow diners to order food or booze without a wait.'

McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a machine - The Washington Post


This is what happens when - among other reasons - you start demanding higher pay then your position is worth (like fast food workers demanding $15/hr.).

If these fast food workers force Congress to adopt a $15/hr. minimum wage? I guarantee you that the above will be the result...automation and mass layoffs.

It ain't rocket science people - you are VERY replaceable.
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C'mon, this isn't about wages. If you can't make money while paying people $15/hr. your business is already down the toilet. You're losing the competition.
This is about product. McDonalds can't sell their crap through a drive-through window so they're hoping even faster crap will sell from a machine. Their only hope is that their slave-wage employees each buy a dozen meals a week from their machines and they get some weird perpetual-motion thing working.
 
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Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

JasperL said:
Who are "they" and tell me a bit about their life?

But I get it - it's their fault so you have no obligation to them. Let them eat cake I guess.
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The people who are stuck working for minimum wage, of course. If you want to learn more about them, go ask them. And yes, it is their fault and I have no obligation to them whatsoever. I didn't screw up my life. They did. Screw 'em.
 
Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

JasperL said:
I accept automation as inevitable - opposing that is like opposing a rising tide.

And as to your second point, as the supply of low skill labor goes up because of automation, "market" wages get further depressed. Others are blaming the poor for losing their jobs to automation and there not being other jobs for low skill workers to move into. But beyond that, is there any role for government or society? Or just let them beg like we've done for most of history. The problem exists now. Ignoring it or talking around it isn't an approach to dealing with it, neither is wishing they were all skilled, and were all above average intelligence, or all made excellent life choices.
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You are sooo close to understanding the problem.

Minimum wage sets a bar in the wage scale that an employer can not go below. There is no lower limit imposed on the cost of automation, however. When automation costs drops below the cost of employing a minimum wage staff the staff loses their job. By RAISING minimum wage you accelerate the process.

Do I think government has a role? Yes and no. I don't think it is the Governments job to protect unskilled workers from automation. If there is a job for Government it is to promote the modernization of the work force. If people refuse to make use of the ample services already provided to help them gain a marketable skill then what more does society owe them?
 
Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

jmotivator said:
You are sooo close to understanding the problem.

Minimum wage sets a bar in the wage scale that an employer can not go below. There is no lower limit imposed on the cost of automation, however. When automation costs drops below the cost of employing a minimum wage staff the staff loses their job. By RAISING minimum wage you accelerate the process.
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Like I said earlier, the 'acceleration' will be IMO small.

Do I think government has a role? Yes and no. I don't think it is the Governments job to protect unskilled workers from automation. If there is a job for Government it is to promote the modernization of the work force. If people refuse to make use of the ample services already provided to help them gain a marketable skill then what more does society owe them?
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"Promote the modernization..." Sounds good, but means little. You going to teach a person with an IQ of 80 to fix robots?

And if a person with few skills doesn't catch on, they get to beg, their children go without healthcare, die early of treatable illness or disease, etc.?

That's what I expected. No attempt to actually have an honest discussion.
 
Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

DA60 said:
'If you’ve ever felt guilty ordering at McDonald’s, the fast-food mega-chain has just the fix: You can now order your own quarter-pound bacon cheeseburger from a welcoming, non-judging machine.

Battling the worst sales slump in a decade and competition from build-your-own upstarts like Chipotle and Smashburger, McDonald’s is expanding a test concept built around ordering via tablet. Just tap on a screen and watch as your burger’s toppings (and calories) pile on, then wait for an employee to bring it over. No human interaction necessary.

McDonald’s move towards dehumanization, launched as a pilot last winter and expanded across San Diego last week, is part of a larger trend of chain eateries turning tablets into your full-time restaurant buddy: equal parts menu, server and paycheck. Applebee’s, Panera Bread and even airport bars have installed tablets to allow diners to order food or booze without a wait.'

McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a machine - The Washington Post


This is what happens when - among other reasons - you start demanding higher pay then your position is worth (like fast food workers demanding $15/hr.).

If these fast food workers force Congress to adopt a $15/hr. minimum wage? I guarantee you that the above will be the result...automation and mass layoffs.

It ain't rocket science people - you are VERY replaceable.
Click to expand...

It ain't gonna work.
 
Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

Cephus said:
The people who are stuck working for minimum wage, of course. If you want to learn more about them, go ask them. And yes, it is their fault and I have no obligation to them whatsoever. I didn't screw up my life. They did. Screw 'em.
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Well, you get bonus points for honesty I guess.

And I work with them on a regular basis through a charity that takes in homeless people, over half of them veterans. So I have asked them. Not much point in saying more.
 
Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

Cephus said:
Those jobs are supposed to be filled by teenagers, kids living at home with most of their expenses covered, as a place to learn basic work skills and develop a work ethic. Then they move on, either up the ladder to better paying jobs, or elsewhere once they get their education. These jobs were never intended for a living wage and anyone who is trying to do so is doing it wrong. And I'm not talking about people who, due to the economic downturn, got stuck in a low-paying job, I'm talking about people who have NEVER had a decent job in their lives, yet they have kids and other expenses, voluntary expenses I might add, that now they expect society to cover because they are irresponsible. Anyone who doesn't live within their means is, by definition, irresponsible. It isn't the job of McDonalds or Walmart or anyone else to pay them more because they made bad life choices, it certainly isn't the job of the American taxpayer to pay for their stupid decisions. It is theirs. They need to get it through their heads and man up.
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What the **** are you talking about high school kids? these jobs are filled by retirees, those who lost jobs but can't find anything else except menial fast food in a pinch. it's not always black-and-white that teenagers should have these gigs as first jobs. My 68-year-old neighbor who lives across the street for me lost her husband last year and whatever her financial situation was, was forced her to take a job at Taco Bell. Everyone situation and circumstances are different so don't try n' call it until you walked in their shoes.
 
Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

JasperL said:
Well, you get bonus points for honesty I guess.

And I work with them on a regular basis through a charity that takes in homeless people, over half of them veterans. So I have asked them. Not much point in saying more.
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In other words, you have no real defense, you're just going to believe what you believe and can't actually argue why it's a valid position. Gotcha.
 
Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

JasperL said:
Like I said earlier, the 'acceleration' will be IMO small.



"Promote the modernization..." Sounds good, but means little. You going to teach a person with an IQ of 80 to fix robots?

And if a person with few skills doesn't catch on, they get to beg, their children go without healthcare, die early of treatable illness or disease, etc.?

That's what I expected. No attempt to actually have an honest discussion.
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Tell me....what jobs did 80 iq's hold 40-50 years ago?

They have always been low wage employees...if employed at all

Certain people with disabilities ....physical or mental will be cared for by the state

The rest have to do the best they can.....and minimum wage may be the best they can attain

The higher you make that wage, the fewer of those jobs there will be

Your choice
 
Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

Cephus said:
In other words, you have no real defense, you're just going to believe what you believe and can't actually argue why it's a valid position. Gotcha.
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No, I just realize there is little point discussing this with someone whose opinion on the poor is "f*ck em." There is no part of that sentiment I agree with, obviously, or I wouldn't donate money or time to help the people about whom you have nothing but contempt. There is no common ground to reach.
 
Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

gdgyva said:
Tell me....what jobs did 80 iq's hold 40-50 years ago?
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The minimum wage was during some of that period as high as $10 an hour, more if you believe inflation has been understated for a while. Second, we used to have a lot more production jobs that didn't require any great skill, but were union jobs or paid union equivalent wages with benefits for someone with a HS diploma or less. Those are mostly gone.

They have always been low wage employees...if employed at all

Certain people with disabilities ....physical or mental will be cared for by the state

The rest have to do the best they can.....and minimum wage may be the best they can attain

The higher you make that wage, the fewer of those jobs there will be

Your choice
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OK, that's fine, so eliminate or expand EITC? Food stamps? Medicaid? School lunch program for poor kids? Point is I agree the poor will always be with us. Conservatives seem to want to tell me all kinds of reasons why and I don't really care WHY - there are 100 reasons. The question is what to do about them, especially given the trajectory of the economy where the number of those on the bottom are growing, their real wages declining, rising income from productivity increases going to the top slivers, etc.

One person on here was honest at least and said "F*ck em." If that's the conservative position, great. We'll all know where we stand.
 
Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

Reminds me of grocery store workers and their unions. In my area, it was shortly after they went on strike that you started to see the automated check out thingies. Machines don't want wages above market and free health care.
 
Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

You should go back to school and study economics instead.

Verax said:
I'm a software developer considering going back to school for robotics, it is incredibly interesting to me. Ima put all you suckers out of work too, ha ha ha. No but really this trend is going to be a death knell for people whose jobs are replaced. I truly do wonder what is going to happen to them, regardless of the silly notion that people can just get a better job. Out of twenty people replaced will two or three of them get jobs tending to this new system? What about the other 17?

The only realistic solution in my mind is a more socialist state where those at the bottom are completely taken care of and working is optional. Oh my... I just felt heads exploding everywhere.

It can be mitigated somewhat by creating more high end jobs but that can only go so far. The majority of these workers will not be capable of doing anything too technical.
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Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

Lutherf said:
From a business standpoint this is a ridiculous move.

The reason McDonalds's sales are slumping is because they have an inferior product as compared to their competition. 5 Guys, In 'n' Out, and others offer a better burger at more or less the same price.

If McD's wants to get back their market share they need to go back to their roots and start offering a marginal burger really, really fast. For decades the whole reason people went to McD's is because by the time you finished ordering your meal was on the tray in front of you. Yeah, the burger had been sitting under a heat lamp for 10 minutes and it really wasn't that great but it was also 29 cents and in your hand damned near before you could blink. They don't need specialty burgers and coffee lounges. They just need clean restaurants and lickity split service with the same old mediocre burgers they've always had.
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Fives guys are way way more expensive then McD, and In Out is just not really that good.
 
Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

If you're in a job that requires you to wear a name tag and a hairnet and can be replaced by a machine, its time to have frank discussion with yourself .

Cephus said:
Well, let's be honest, the more skilled a person is, the less replaceable they are, so maybe both positions are correct. If McDonalds can get a machine that will do all of the things a cashier can do, and do it more efficiently, with less error and for less money, why wouldn't they automate? Maybe those workers need to be more valuable to their employer? Maybe they need to stop being little more than sacks of meat in a uniform? I was just in McDonalds last night and someone came up to the counter complaining that the drinks coming out of the drink machine didn't taste right and I swear, the cashier looked like a deer in the headlights. They had no clue what to even say. These are not people who are worth minimum wage.
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Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

TobyOne said:
You should go back to school and study economics instead.
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You should study psychology and learn that most everyone thinks their ideas are the best and that others are inferior.

There are many top tier and Nobel prize winning economists that support similar notions as I've listed.
 
Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

All ideas aren't equal. Some are really bad. You seem to have stumbled onto one of them. Also, Paul Krugman has a nobel prize.

Verax said:
You should study psychology and learn that most everyone thinks their ideas are the best and that others are inferior.

There are many top tier and Nobel prize winning economists that support similar notions as I've listed.
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Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

Hamster Buddha said:
I'm confused; what does ordering a burger on tablet have to do with minimum wage? This seems a bit of a stretch...
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You need to have your eyes checked.
 
Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

TobyOne said:
All ideas aren't equal. Some are really bad. You seem to have stumbled onto one of them. Also, Paul Krugman has a nobel prize.
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Thankfully you know which ones are the best, it must be humbling to be anointed with divine intellect.

Joseph Stiglitz is a pretty notable economist, is he a dumbass too?
 
Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

Almost all of these fast food places are privately owned and quality and service will be subjective. Where we live Wendy's has good food and mediocre service. Burger King is total rock bottom ( which disappoints me so because I loooooove a Whopper now and then) and McD's is top notch. Right now they are handing out little hourglass timers at the first window, you get something free if it runs out before you get your food. The first time it was explained to me my reply was "pffft, not going to happen here, you guys rock" and handed it back. I like a good bagel breakfast sandwich.
 
Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

DA60 said:
'If you’ve ever felt guilty ordering at McDonald’s, the fast-food mega-chain has just the fix: You can now order your own quarter-pound bacon cheeseburger from a welcoming, non-judging machine.

Battling the worst sales slump in a decade and competition from build-your-own upstarts like Chipotle and Smashburger, McDonald’s is expanding a test concept built around ordering via tablet. Just tap on a screen and watch as your burger’s toppings (and calories) pile on, then wait for an employee to bring it over. No human interaction necessary.

McDonald’s move towards dehumanization, launched as a pilot last winter and expanded across San Diego last week, is part of a larger trend of chain eateries turning tablets into your full-time restaurant buddy: equal parts menu, server and paycheck. Applebee’s, Panera Bread and even airport bars have installed tablets to allow diners to order food or booze without a wait.'

McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a machine - The Washington Post


This is what happens when - among other reasons - you start demanding higher pay then your position is worth (like fast food workers demanding $15/hr.).

If these fast food workers force Congress to adopt a $15/hr. minimum wage? I guarantee you that the above will be the result...automation and mass layoffs.

It ain't rocket science people - you are VERY replaceable.
Click to expand...


There are plenty of systems already out there like that. At work, our cafeterias, for all sorts of meals way beyond burgers, with lots of extras and options....you order and then swipe your ATM card.
 
Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

Hamster Buddha said:
I'm confused; what does ordering a burger on tablet have to do with minimum wage? This seems a bit of a stretch...
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easy i don't have to pay a tablet 15 dollars an hour. IE i don't need cashiers to run the menu ordering.
person walks up selects big mac combo meal pays waits for food.

i personally like them. to many times people taking my order screw it up. i would rather do it myself.
 
Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

reinoe said:
How much more "mediocre" can their burgers get? They're already awful and make me sick.
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i agree i only eat there if i have to. their burgers stink. i don't know what they use or how they cook them but they are just nasty and taste like cardboard.
 
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