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McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a [W:391]

Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

Those existed well into the 60s too.

Probably just before my time. I remembered my Grandmother talking about them in Philadelphia in the early 1940's.
 
Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

Probably just before my time. I remembered my Grandmother talking about them in Philadelphia in the early 1940's.

I remember actually eating in one with my dad in Manhattan when I was a young child in the 60's
 
Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

Won't kill me but it goes through me like grass through a goose. If I go to town and need to eat on the run I'll go to Subway or Quizno's but those grease-burgers and fries, well, they may not feed me but they sure clean out my system. One a year, just for a reminder...
Archery season opened here on the first, rifles on the 10th. We're so over-run with deer you can take three, two does. No wild hogs, though.

The deer will be easy. I live in the woods up near the top of a ridge and they walk thru the yard twice a day. Just need to be waiting for them. The hogs will be fun this year, we are scouting a new area that should allow us to shoot from an elevated position and some pretty good distance.
View attachment 67172811
 
Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

I remember actually eating in one with my dad in Manhattan when I was a young child in the 60's

Yup, my mom used to go in with her girlfriends into Manhattan in the 50 and eat the automats and she took me to one as a little girl in the 60s.
 
Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

Look at it this way: there will still be people in the back preparing the food, cleaning, etc. They can move up into a maintenance type role like they can move into manager. And then perhaps pursue more in the technology skills.

Ok. Sounds good.
 
Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

I've read that this is a way of weaning customers off of personal checkers. I think, from what I read, that it's working. Maybe the chains have been told this is the right number now, per their customer base, by marketing research firms?

It's changing every year so I see it as silly to make the claim you did like it's set in stone. It's like people that said the car would never replace horse-drawn carriages. New technology takes time to be widely adopted.

self checkouts have been around for a while and they have plenty of disadvantages such as not being able to stop theft that they will have make major jumps in technology before you will see more than just a few at your local store
 
Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

self checkouts have been around for a while and they have plenty of disadvantages such as not being able to stop theft that they will have make major jumps in technology before you will see more than just a few at your local store

Still not really making your point. Doesnt really change anything.
 
Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

self checkouts have been around for a while and they have plenty of disadvantages such as not being able to stop theft that they will have make major jumps in technology before you will see more than just a few at your local store

RFIDs will make an interesting change to shopping in the future. The tech has not be adopted yet, but it would make checking out a very pleasant experience. It would eliminate cashiers, but that is another story.

Here is the first link I came up with if you are unaware of RFIDs. http://www.rfidarena.com/2013/4/11/grocery-industry-operations-are-facing-a-real-paradigm-shift.aspx
 
Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

Still not really making your point. Doesnt really change anything.

Sure it does there are things a cashier can do more efficiently than a machine and that's why there are more cashiers than machines it's that simple
 
Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

The deer will be easy. I live in the woods up near the top of a ridge and they walk thru the yard twice a day. Just need to be waiting for them. The hogs will be fun this year, we are scouting a new area that should allow us to shoot from an elevated position and some pretty good distance.
View attachment 67172811

Couple days ago I left the garden gate open and a doe and last years fawn went in and wiped out our tomatoes. I don't have a tag and I'm too close to the road so had to chase them out and the young one got messed up in the wire mesh and I had to carry her out.
Picked a tick off my neck at the hair line later, and I've been reading up on Lyme disease ever since!
Never hunted hogs. Do you bait them?
 
Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

are you looking at the same graph I am?

It shows senior poverty dropping by more than 2/3 and child poverty dropping approx 20%

It also shows child poverty increasing the most when Reagan and bush* were President

My initial statement was regarding the last 40 years.
 
Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

IOW, you're cherry picking

Nope. I was pointing out that escalating costs of the war on poverty over the last 40 years have yielded no results. That isn't cherry picking.
 
Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

Sure it does there are things a cashier can do more efficiently than a machine and that's why there are more cashiers than machines it's that simple

Yup...just like there were things horses and carriages could do more efficiently than cars...until car technology and adoption made that untrue.

it is that simple.
 
Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

Nope. I was pointing out that escalating costs of the war on poverty over the last 40 years have yielded no results. That isn't cherry picking.

No, you picked the point where child poverty hit its' lowest point, the ams War on Poverty was the 60's (not the 70's) and you ignore that some programs have been cut (or even eliminated) and the effects that has had since that time

Removing the decade in which poverty programs had their greatest effect on poverty is a dishonest way to argue that poverty programs have had no effect on poverty
 
Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

No, you picked the point where child poverty hit its' lowest point, the ams War on Poverty was the 60's (not the 70's) and you ignore that some programs have been cut (or even eliminated) and the effects that has had since that time

Removing the decade in which poverty programs had their greatest effect on poverty is a dishonest way to argue that poverty programs have had no effect on poverty

It's a simple concept really, Sangha, I was arguing that the spending increases of the last 40 years haven't budged the poverty rate. This isn't cherry picking, it is a simple fact, like saying that the planet has warmed 0.8C in the last 110 years when 110 years ago was a low point in global climate. That isn't cherry picking either, just stating a fact.
 
Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

It's a simple concept really, Sangha, I was arguing that the spending increases of the last 40 years haven't budged the poverty rate. This isn't cherry picking, it is a simple fact, like saying that the planet has warmed 0.8C in the last 110 years when 110 years ago was a low point in global climate. That isn't cherry picking either, just stating a fact.

And picking the last 40 years is cherry picking because these programs have been around longer than that.
 
Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

Your guess avoids logic and real world developments of the last 50 years. I don't "like" mine, it's just what is going to happen.

My guess really doesn't. If the cost is equal, and you say it's getting there, then there exists a ton of incentives to avoid the incredible, daily hassle of dealing with low skilled employees, taxes, unemployment, calling in sick, failing to show, etc. I don't think the cost difference is the barrier - it's whether the machines can do the job as well as humans and whether people accept them. There are self checkout places in stores with wages FAR above minimum wage. If McD finds that people accept robots or automated kiosks, they'll replace workers whether they're paid $8 an hour or $15. As someone pointed out, in Europe they're getting $15. Why haven't they all been replaced by machines? At any rate, it's an objective question and you've cited no data or evidence, same as me.

It appears the answer is yes in some cases. They don't seem to be helping. That isn't saying that there aren't the possibility of better programs that the money would be better spent on, however, just that the programs of the last 40 years have been abysmally inept.

Can you cite any study, treatise, discussion, or are we just supposed to take your word for it?

Mandatory spending between 1993 and 2013 outpaced inflation by more than a factor of three (Inflation was 61%, Mandatory spending rose 200%), and poverty rates didn't change. Surely you don't see this as a success?

That's mostly Medicare and SS, and the poverty rates of old people DID change. Look at the graph.

Yes they are, because when we are discussing JOBS you try to change the subject to a subject that is pretty much the OPPOSITE of jobs.

I wasn't just discussing jobs. You jumped in to a thread and want to determine what's an appropriate topic, which is what YOU want to talk about, after the fact.

Me: "Unskilled workers jobs are threatened by innovation, Does the government owe them anything?"

You: "BLAAARG!! YOU WANT KILL WELFARE AND CHILDREN!!!"

It wasn't me who said the only role for government was to "modernize" the workforce. If you wanted to say, "modernize the workforce, expand EITC, etc." then you should have said it instead of assuming we'd all understand you.

Yes, you intentionally inferred a comment about welfare from a comment I said that had nothing to do with welfare. It isn't a matter of "parsing for weasel words", it's a matter of you learning how to read in general without dumping a truck load of your own garbage on what the other person wrote.

Again, if you want to jump into a discussion, you can't then make the rules about what is appropriate to discuss.

When have we actually had a situation that matches this free trade and modernization? Jobs are going off shore because it is cheaper, companies are leaving because taxes are lower. You and every other nanny-state promoter ignore the simple fact that it is DEMOCRAT policies that are driving jobs over seas and driving companies to countries with lower taxes.

You also ignore the reason why so many jobs ended up going to China, and the US lost it's edge over Japan in the automotive and technology markets: US Protectionism created s**ty products in the 70s and 80s.

One reason jobs are going overseas are the subsistence wages and lack of safety rules, work rules, so they're poisoning workers and the population, which DOES make it cheaper to make stuff. Look up a picture of China - I've been there, and there were clear days you can't see a quarter mile because of the smog. Kills perhaps 500,000 Chinese per year. It's a big advantage, not to mention the explicit and implicit Chinese subsidies in general, such as them holding down their currency to make their goods cheaper and more.

FWIW, I agree and have said we might as well subsidize the hell out of our manufacturers. It would make the playing field somewhat level. Lower the tax rate to zero for all I care - just tax wages and dividends and capital gains. The big boys already pay voluntary U.S. taxes on overseas profits. I'd rather domestic producers face the same option.

And the manufacturing jobs lost over seas were replaced with a booming services market in IT and contruction. Your way of processing information seems to rely heavily on zero sum logic... sprinkled with a healthy dose of the bigotry of low expectations for low income workers.

No they weren't, except for construction, in a BUBBLE. You're not really saying that's an equivalent trade off are you?

And I'm just looking at data. I've driven around lots of Tennessee towns that used to thrive and are now empty shells, and I see the wage data for the working class and it's declining or at best stagnant. If you have any data to present to make your case, do so. I've looked for years to find the evidence "free trade" works and just haven't seen it. But I'm open to learning new things. You got anything but you saying it's true?

Note that the only decline in the poverty rate in that 40 year span has been in the retirement population, poverty in working age families has increased, and in the end it is a wash with no net change in the national poverty rate.

OK, and..... You had a ramp up in poverty spending and showed big drops in the poverty rate. Since then from what I've read most of the growth is in healthcare, which is consistent with growth in healthcare costs for everyone, and spending on other programs has been more or less similar, with small increases. So what should happen to the poverty rate given real wages for the bottom 20% have declined since the 1970s?
 
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Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

Couple days ago I left the garden gate open and a doe and last years fawn went in and wiped out our tomatoes. I don't have a tag and I'm too close to the road so had to chase them out and the young one got messed up in the wire mesh and I had to carry her out.
Picked a tick off my neck at the hair line later, and I've been reading up on Lyme disease ever since!
Never hunted hogs. Do you bait them?

Around here some people trap them, which involves building an enclosure close to where they travel and baiting them in. But I'm not a wholesale hunter. My friends and I hunt for meat, not population control, and we are all rifle instructors. We look at it as organic pork and nuisance control, not target practice. But on a good night a group of us can knock down enough to fill our coolers. They are plenty prolific to feed a lot of people, we advocate hunting for food and consider it a local commodity. A real hunter respects the animals they hunt and work to maintain the herd. Hogs are exponential breeders. We don't want to wipe them out but the population does need to be controlled. They have no natural predators here except for maybe coyote, but those are hunted to maintain livestock. And honestly wild hog 2 to 1 with venison makes excellent sausage.
 
Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

That's what I do - I just don't ground the steak. I actually cut up a nice skirt steak and mix it with my ground beef... It makes for a really tasty burger. I also throw bread crumbs and Worcestershire sauce into the ground beef and steak mix - make my patty's and throw them on the grill. Everyone loves them because they're "chewy" because of the steak, so it's like getting the best of both worlds - a burger and a steak. haha

That's an excellent idea. This weekend, that is happening.

What is wrong with you? A burger is good but steak is steak. I'm almost certain it is a felony in Texas to turn a perfectly good steak into a burger.

Well I probably wouldn't use "perfectly" good steak, I'd probably use decent steak. Including the kind that was recently marked down for nearing its expiration. If it's a felony to turn steak into burger, what is it when grocers have to toss out steak that didn't sell? Beef holocaust?
 
Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

'If you’ve ever felt guilty ordering at McDonald’s, the fast-food mega-chain has just the fix: You can now order your own quarter-pound bacon cheeseburger from a welcoming, non-judging machine.

Battling the worst sales slump in a decade and competition from build-your-own upstarts like Chipotle and Smashburger, McDonald’s is expanding a test concept built around ordering via tablet. Just tap on a screen and watch as your burger’s toppings (and calories) pile on, then wait for an employee to bring it over. No human interaction necessary.

McDonald’s move towards dehumanization, launched as a pilot last winter and expanded across San Diego last week, is part of a larger trend of chain eateries turning tablets into your full-time restaurant buddy: equal parts menu, server and paycheck. Applebee’s, Panera Bread and even airport bars have installed tablets to allow diners to order food or booze without a wait.'


McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a machine - The Washington Post


This is what happens when - among other reasons - you start demanding higher pay then your position is worth (like fast food workers demanding $15/hr.).

If these fast food workers force Congress to adopt a $15/hr. minimum wage? I guarantee you that the above will be the result...automation and mass layoffs.

It ain't rocket science people - you are VERY replaceable.

Even if minimum wage jumped to $15 an hour it would still be exponentially behind the inflation rate not to mention that the US is one of the only modernized economies in the Western World which doesn't grant mandatory holiday pay no matter how many years you work for a company. Another great thing we have is the necessity (especially in rural communities) of getting two **** jobs because no company wants to grant overtime hours so instead of getting to work 60 hours with 20 hours of overtime at one place you still get to work 60 hours but at two places with no overtime pay. And if you're so concerned about fast food workers maybe you should take a stand for the actual enforcement of laws against Union breaking and workers right in America which are actually on par with the entire rest of the civilized world.
 
Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

From a business standpoint this is a ridiculous move.

The reason McDonalds's sales are slumping is because they have an inferior product as compared to their competition. 5 Guys, In 'n' Out, and others offer a better burger at more or less the same price.

Ya 5 Guys is awesome and they have better fries too not to mention the quantity not just the quality is better as well, have you been to a McDonalds recently? Unless you order off the value menu everything there is ridiculously overpriced from what I remember from just a few years ago IIRC the Big Mac meal was something like $7 which again IIRC is a only a dollar less than a single burger and fries from 5 guys where it doesn't cost extra to get it with all the fixings including A1 sauce.
 
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Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

And if they have fewer of them, they'll be able to pay them more and not effect their bottom line. Really, this is a harbinger of things to come that aren't going to be pleasant for the uneducated and poorly educated among us. There was a time when a strong willing body was enough. We're fast approaching a time when that's not going to be nearly enough.

Not sure the last time you tried to join the workforce in recent years but even if you have a Bachelors degree you will still a good chance you'll wind up in the service industry and even if you don't your entry level position will likely be less than what a server makes, that is if your entry level position isn't a 1 year internship that pays you nothing.
 
Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

'If you’ve ever felt guilty ordering at McDonald’s, the fast-food mega-chain has just the fix: You can now order your own quarter-pound bacon cheeseburger from a welcoming, non-judging machine.

Battling the worst sales slump in a decade and competition from build-your-own upstarts like Chipotle and Smashburger, McDonald’s is expanding a test concept built around ordering via tablet. Just tap on a screen and watch as your burger’s toppings (and calories) pile on, then wait for an employee to bring it over. No human interaction necessary.

McDonald’s move towards dehumanization, launched as a pilot last winter and expanded across San Diego last week, is part of a larger trend of chain eateries turning tablets into your full-time restaurant buddy: equal parts menu, server and paycheck. Applebee’s, Panera Bread and even airport bars have installed tablets to allow diners to order food or booze without a wait.'


McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a machine - The Washington Post


This is what happens when - among other reasons - you start demanding higher pay then your position is worth (like fast food workers demanding $15/hr.).

If these fast food workers force Congress to adopt a $15/hr. minimum wage? I guarantee you that the above will be the result...automation and mass layoffs.

It ain't rocket science people - you are VERY replaceable.

isn't automation going to just get cheaper and cheaper any way so wouldn't McDonalds have done this any way?
 
Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

My guess really doesn't. If the cost is equal, and you say it's getting there, then there exists a ton of incentives to avoid the incredible, daily hassle of dealing with low skilled employees, taxes, unemployment, calling in sick, failing to show, etc. I don't think the cost difference is the barrier - it's whether the machines can do the job as well as humans and whether people accept them. There are self checkout places in stores with wages FAR above minimum wage. If McD finds that people accept robots or automated kiosks, they'll replace workers whether they're paid $8 an hour or $15. As someone pointed out, in Europe they're getting $15. Why haven't they all been replaced by machines? At any rate, it's an objective question and you've cited no data or evidence, same as me.

Automated kiosks already work better than cashiers.

As for Europe, the automation conversion is way ahead of the US:

In 2011: McDonald's hires 7,000 touch-screen cashiers - CNET


Can you cite any study, treatise, discussion, or are we just supposed to take your word for it?


I'm using your offered charts. With the explosion in spending you should expect more than the status quo in combating poverty, but that is what we got.


That's mostly Medicare and SS, and the poverty rates of old people DID change. Look at the graph.

First, Social Security and Medicare aren't welfare even though I believe their are far better ways to invest a person's Social Security taxes than sticking them in a lock box (with a broken lock), people still pay into the system. Hell, investing that Social Security money in the stock market would have had a FAR better return for those paying into the system since the 1960s. But those two programs are what amounts to forced savings plans for the individual and did have an impact on poverty in old age. The rest of the "War on Poverty" has been a bust over the last 40 years with poverty increasing among non-elderly recipients while government aid sky rocketed. The net result is an aggregated stagnation in the poverty rate to match massive growth in spending.

Secondly, Social Security didn't increase massively in that time, and Medicare, while the single biggest program, was not even mostly responsible for the increase. It increased quite a lot, but so did everything else.

Thirdly, I don't begrudge the elderly receiving the benefit of programs they paid for.

(I think this discussion is about to hit the character buffer so I am breaking it into two here)
 
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