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Thread: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a [W:391]

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    Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I don't believe that to be totally true. Although there are larger expenses that labor in business, typically employees of any company are one of the bigger expenses, certainly more than 10%.

    Do you have any documentation showing that a franchise owner running one or more McD's only pays out 10% of gross to their employees?
    10% just for counter people. A typical franchise restaurant of the typical McDonald's size usually runs between 35-40% of gross for total labor cost, and about 10% or so being front counter people, which is roughly between 25-33% of labor costs.

    sanga just refuses to understand that total labor cost in relation to gross is even a thing, and that a quarter to a third of it is a sizable chunk.
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    Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I don't believe that to be totally true. Although there are larger expenses that labor in business, typically employees of any company are one of the bigger expenses, certainly more than 10%.
    We weren't talking about all labor - just the order takers

    Do you have any documentation showing that a franchise owner running one or more McD's only pays out 10% of gross to their employees?
    None has been posted. Just speculation
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    Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I see that your pitiful attempt to derail the discussion by talking about cooks has now morphed into talk about cutting taxes.
    I see you ignore the fact you were either blatantly and unapologetically wrong, or intentionally lying about my argument. We are talking about the order takers here. You keep bring up cooks (which belonged to another point). And if 10% is just a small part of anything, like you just said, then it really doesn't matter now does it? 10% here, 10% there. How about a 10% raise. Or a 10% pay cut.

    Can't deal with the argument dealt to you? Disassemble! Distract! Lie! The problem is, it's not fooling anyone.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
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    Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

    More to sangha's claim;

    "The story drew on data presented by Arnobio Morelix, an undergraduate student from The University Of Kansas who identified himself as a researcher for the school. In an interview, Morelix told the HuffPost that only 17.1 percent of McDonald's revenue goes toward salaries and benefits, meaning that for every dollar McDonald's earns, a little more than 17 cents goes toward the income and benefits of its employees.

    However, as the Columbia Journalism Review subsequently noted, Morelix's analysis only takes into account the payroll and employee benefits of McDonald's company-operated stores while excluding franchise businesses. Prior to publication, HuffPost asked Morelix if his analysis included franchises and he said it did. He later conceded it did not. McDonald's franchises make up more than 80 percent of McDonald's restaurants worldwide. This means that a majority of the payroll and employee benefits of McDonald's workers are not included in Morelix's findings.

    A typical fast-food restaurant spends 30 to 35 percent of its income on labor, according to a recent release from the Employment Policies Institute, a research organization whose work is often cited by those who argue against increasing the minimum wage. The institute estimates that small-business owners who run McDonald's franchises spend about a third of their income on wages, which would mean the price of a Big Mac would go up by $1.28 to $5.27."

    Errors in McDonald's Wage Analysis

    Now, the fact that HuffPo ran with bogus numbers in their first story because they so wanted to further the narrative of the "greedy capitalist American businessman" is beside the point in this thread at least, but in the printed correction here they clearly cite company McD's running employment costs at 17% and Franchise owners, (80% of all McD's) running at 30% to 35% of gross sales. So, the number that sangha is standing by of these costs only being 10% is just plain false.
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    Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    I see you ignore the fact you were either blatantly and unapologetically wrong, or intentionally lying about my argument. We are talking about the order takers here. You keep bring up cooks (which belonged to another point). And if 10% is just a small part of anything, like you just said, then it really doesn't matter now does it? 10% here, 10% there. How about a 10% raise. Or a 10% pay cut.

    Can't deal with the argument dealt to you? Disassemble! Distract! Lie! The problem is, it's not fooling anyone.
    His problem with that correlation is that McD's employees are typically cross trained in all aspects of the behind the counter operation, so it would be impossible to separate say counter from line assembly, from drive up window, etc...

    It is only a way to to dismiss facts that go against his narrative.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    We weren't talking about all labor - just the order takers
    I addressed that to Gonzo, you're looking at it disingenuously...

    None has been posted. Just speculation
    Thank you for admitting that you are talking out of your arse.
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    Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    More to sangha's claim;

    "The story drew on data presented by Arnobio Morelix, an undergraduate student from The University Of Kansas who identified himself as a researcher for the school. In an interview, Morelix told the HuffPost that only 17.1 percent of McDonald's revenue goes toward salaries and benefits, meaning that for every dollar McDonald's earns, a little more than 17 cents goes toward the income and benefits of its employees.

    However, as the Columbia Journalism Review subsequently noted, Morelix's analysis only takes into account the payroll and employee benefits of McDonald's company-operated stores while excluding franchise businesses. Prior to publication, HuffPost asked Morelix if his analysis included franchises and he said it did. He later conceded it did not. McDonald's franchises make up more than 80 percent of McDonald's restaurants worldwide. This means that a majority of the payroll and employee benefits of McDonald's workers are not included in Morelix's findings.

    A typical fast-food restaurant spends 30 to 35 percent of its income on labor, according to a recent release from the Employment Policies Institute, a research organization whose work is often cited by those who argue against increasing the minimum wage. The institute estimates that small-business owners who run McDonald's franchises spend about a third of their income on wages, which would mean the price of a Big Mac would go up by $1.28 to $5.27."

    Errors in McDonald's Wage Analysis

    Now, the fact that HuffPo ran with bogus numbers in their first story because they so wanted to further the narrative of the "greedy capitalist American businessman" is beside the point in this thread at least, but in the printed correction here they clearly cite company McD's running employment costs at 17% and Franchise owners, (80% of all McD's) running at 30% to 35% of gross sales. So, the number that sangha is standing by of these costs only being 10% is just plain false.
    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    His problem with that correlation is that McD's employees are typically cross trained in all aspects of the behind the counter operation, so it would be impossible to separate say counter from line assembly, from drive up window, etc...

    It is only a way to to dismiss facts that go against his narrative.
    Just to be clear here, the 10% figure for counter people is mine, which is based on a quarter to a third of labor wage cost (@ $8/hr). It's a figure from my own analysis that represents a reasonable guess at what a typical McDonald's store, staffed in a typical fashion, probably spends to have order takers actively pushing buttons on a cash register (as well as performing all of the other front-of-the-house functions).

    sanga just seems to think it's no big deal, when it is very much a significant chunk of change.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I addressed that to Gonzo, you're looking at it disingenuously...



    Thank you for admitting that you are talking out of your arse.
    He is looking at it disingenuously though. I made a different argument about the need and cost to over-staff which he attempted to disassemble by talking about waitresses. When I made the distinction between waitresses and cooks (and cashiers, but he ignored this part completely), he kept bringing up cooks like I had somehow tried to derail the thread. He just can't deal with arguments as they are presented. It's really quite annoying.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

  8. #368
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    Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    More to sangha's claim;

    "The story drew on data presented by Arnobio Morelix, an undergraduate student from The University Of Kansas who identified himself as a researcher for the school. In an interview, Morelix told the HuffPost that only 17.1 percent of McDonald's revenue goes toward salaries and benefits, meaning that for every dollar McDonald's earns, a little more than 17 cents goes toward the income and benefits of its employees.

    However, as the Columbia Journalism Review subsequently noted, Morelix's analysis only takes into account the payroll and employee benefits of McDonald's company-operated stores while excluding franchise businesses. Prior to publication, HuffPost asked Morelix if his analysis included franchises and he said it did. He later conceded it did not. McDonald's franchises make up more than 80 percent of McDonald's restaurants worldwide. This means that a majority of the payroll and employee benefits of McDonald's workers are not included in Morelix's findings.

    A typical fast-food restaurant spends 30 to 35 percent of its income on labor, according to a recent release from the Employment Policies Institute, a research organization whose work is often cited by those who argue against increasing the minimum wage. The institute estimates that small-business owners who run McDonald's franchises spend about a third of their income on wages, which would mean the price of a Big Mac would go up by $1.28 to $5.27."

    Errors in McDonald's Wage Analysis

    Now, the fact that HuffPo ran with bogus numbers in their first story because they so wanted to further the narrative of the "greedy capitalist American businessman" is beside the point in this thread at least, but in the printed correction here they clearly cite company McD's running employment costs at 17% and Franchise owners, (80% of all McD's) running at 30% to 35% of gross sales. So, the number that sangha is standing by of these costs only being 10% is just plain false.
    That # (ie 1/3) is for ALL employees. We're talking only about the order takers
    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    His problem with that correlation is that McD's employees are typically cross trained in all aspects of the behind the counter operation, so it would be impossible to separate say counter from line assembly, from drive up window, etc...

    It is only a way to to dismiss facts that go against his narrative.
    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I addressed that to Gonzo, you're looking at it disingenuously...
    No, the automation only affects the order takers. It won't replace the kitchen staff.


    Thank you for admitting that you are talking out of your arse.
    I made no claims about how much the labor costs relative to total expenses except to say it's not a large portion.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  9. #369
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    Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    That # (ie 1/3) is for ALL employees. We're talking only about the order takers




    No, the automation only affects the order takers. It won't replace the kitchen staff.




    I made no claims about how much the labor costs relative to total expenses except to say it's not a large portion.
    You don't think that 30 to 35% is a large portion? I do...To your silly argument about separating cooks from counter people...Show me that jobs within a McD is singular....And more so to the point, the article also said that raising the minimum pay at McD to $15 would indeed increase the cost of a Big Mac by quite a bit. And that was HuffPo, certainly NO conservative outlet.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    You don't think that 30 to 35% is a large portion? I do...To your silly argument about separating cooks from counter people...Show me that jobs within a McD is singular....And more so to the point, the article also said that raising the minimum pay at McD to $15 would indeed increase the cost of a Big Mac by quite a bit. And that was HuffPo, certainly NO conservative outlet.
    Again, we're not talking about their total labor costs. We're talking only about the cost of the order takers. The automation of order taking will not eliminate jobs in the kitchen.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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