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    Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    'If you’ve ever felt guilty ordering at McDonald’s, the fast-food mega-chain has just the fix: You can now order your own quarter-pound bacon cheeseburger from a welcoming, non-judging machine.

    Battling the worst sales slump in a decade and competition from build-your-own upstarts like Chipotle and Smashburger, McDonald’s is expanding a test concept built around ordering via tablet. Just tap on a screen and watch as your burger’s toppings (and calories) pile on, then wait for an employee to bring it over. No human interaction necessary.

    McDonald’s move towards dehumanization, launched as a pilot last winter and expanded across San Diego last week, is part of a larger trend of chain eateries turning tablets into your full-time restaurant buddy: equal parts menu, server and paycheck. Applebee’s, Panera Bread and even airport bars have installed tablets to allow diners to order food or booze without a wait.'


    McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a machine - The Washington Post


    This is what happens when - among other reasons - you start demanding higher pay then your position is worth (like fast food workers demanding $15/hr.).

    If these fast food workers force Congress to adopt a $15/hr. minimum wage? I guarantee you that the above will be the result...automation and mass layoffs.

    It ain't rocket science people - you are VERY replaceable.
    Every time these union thugs try to agitate management calls their bluff. The worst part is these union thugs ONLY supported this mcdonalds striking because it raised their own wages. But now the consequences are left to the mcdonalds guys alone-it was never about them.

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    Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    For one thing, 70K for 24/7/365 coverage is nothing compared to what the person brings in.
    Yes, that is how profits work.
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    Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    And yet, restaurants have been doing this for a long time, and it works just fine for them. Maybe they should hire you to tell them what idiots thay are
    Restaurants as an industry have the highest rate of turnover. Tipped jobs are frequently overstaffed because regular hourly employees cost the business three to four times as much. Too many servers means better service and worse tips... which is why waiting tables has such high turnover. There is also very little cost associated with hiring and training new servers. But please, regale us of stories about there being too many cooks and dishwashers on during the dinner rush. (Clue bird for those with no service industry experience: this has never happened.)

    Of course you're overestimating employee costs because this thread is about the automation of the order takers, and you're including the kitchen staff and management.
    Did you not see the specific breakdown for just cashiers, the position we are talking about eliminating? Or are you intentionally ignoring it because it damages your argument too badly? Giving you the total labor cost helps you view individual labor cost in context. 10% of gross when total labor is 30-40% represents 25-33% of total labor. When looked at from the view of total labor cost, or $875,000-$1,000,000, 25% is a significant amount of money, just as 10% of gross is significant (and they are the same number).

    It's a small fraction.
    Tell that to anyone who manages or owns in the service industry.

    Hell, tell that to anyone, ever (with the exception of the church crowd who think 10% tithe is just fine).

    10% of $2.5mil is $250,000. Yeah. A tiny amount. This is why I recommend remedial math study with a focus on fractions and percentages.

    Read the thread title. McD's isn't doing this to cut costs. They're doing it to boost sales.
    If that were true and wasn't just marketing spiel, they would have done it already. The cost savings is there. They have to market the change in such a way that McDonald's restaurants don't appear to be giant vending machines, and that is the only reason why this hasn't happened literally everywhere so far. Marketing is expensive and it takes time.
    Last edited by Gonzo Rodeo; 09-23-14 at 06:24 PM.
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    Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    Restaurants as an industry have the highest rate of turnover. Tipped jobs are frequently overstaffed because regular hourly employees cost the business three to four times as much. Too many servers means better service and worse tips... which is why waiting tables has such high turnover. But please, regale us of stories about there being too many cooks and dishwashers on during the dinner rush. (Clue bird for those with no service industry experience: this has never happened.)
    WHich just confirms what I said about restaurants having an excess of part time employees.

    And when restaurants come up short on dishwashers, they put one of their wait staff or kitchen staff to work.



    Did you not see the specific breakdown for just cashiers, the position we are talking about eliminating? Or are you intentionally ignoring it because it damages your argument too badly?
    My argument is that it isn't a large share of their expenses, and you have shown that I'm correct

    Tell that to anyone who manages or owns in the service industry.

    Hell, tell that to anyone, ever (with the exception of the church crowd who think 10% tithe is just fine).

    10% of $2.5mil is $250,000. Yeah. A tiny amount.
    Like I said, I've been in the industry for decades. I don't have to tell it to them; They say it to me.


    If that were true and wasn't just marketing spiel, they would have done it already. The cost savings is there. They have to market the change in such a way that McDonald's restaurants don't appear to be giant vending machines, and that is the only reason why this hasn't happened literally everywhere so far. Marketing is expensive and it takes time.
    So McD's is lying?
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    Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    WHich just confirms what I said about restaurants having an excess of part time employees.

    And when restaurants come up short on dishwashers, they put one of their wait staff or kitchen staff to work.
    And what happens when you're down a cook? Chaos. Someone has to come in to cover (and potentially break overtime, and people are great at making excuses), or there has to be a certain level of overstaffing built in in the first place. For cooks (and dishwashers, but that job has almost no training/skill involved), who usually make in excess of four times the server amount, there is a fine line to strike between too many and not enough. This is where extra cost comes in, because in order to have "extra" cooks on staff, you have to give them enough hours to keep them all happy, which means "extra" scheduled hours, which cost the restaurant money. Which was my point.

    My argument is that it isn't a large share of their expenses, and you have shown that I'm correct
    You have an odd definition of the word "large". Must be a learned behavior for dealing with the ladies. I say this because you must have giant balls to attempt to claim 10% of a business's gross is "small."

    10% of $2.5mil is a lot of money. You would be an idiot to think "ah, it's nothing really." An idiot.

    So McD's is lying?
    It's marketing. So, yes, in essence. Marketing is based on "shaping" the truth into whatever form is most pleasing. This usually has nothing to do with the actual truth by the time it's done.
    Last edited by Gonzo Rodeo; 09-23-14 at 06:45 PM.
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    Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    And what happens when you're down a cook? Chaos. Someone has to come in to cover (and potentially break overtime, and people are great at making excuses), or there has to be a certain level of overstaffing built in in the first place.
    Just like waitstaff, they have an excess # of part time cooks to call on. If not, they call up another restaurant and ask them if they can arrange for a cook to come in

    For cooks (and dishwashers, but that job has almost no training/skill involved), who usually make in excess of four times the server amount, there is a fine line to strike between too many and not enough. This is where extra cost comes in, because in order to have "extra" cooks on staff, you have to give them enough hours to keep them all happy, which means "extra" scheduled hours, which cost the restaurant money. Which was my point.
    Depends on the restaurant. In many restaurants, the servers make more money on average.

    Besides, we're talking about order takers, not cooks. Those iPads aren't going to cook the burgers


    You have an odd definition of the word "large". Must be a learned behavior for dealing with the ladies. I say this because you must have giant balls to attempt to claim 10% of a business's gross is "small."

    10% of $2.5mil is a lot of money. You would be an idiot to think "ah, it's nothing really." An idiot.
    Good thing onbody said that "it's nothing really". Only an idiot would think someone has.


    It's marketing. So, yes, in essence. Marketing is based on "shaping" the truth into whatever form is most pleasing. This usually has nothing to do with the actual truth by the time it's done.
    I'm sure you have proof that McD's is lying about this and it's really motivated by cost-cutting
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    Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    'If you’ve ever felt guilty ordering at McDonald’s, the fast-food mega-chain has just the fix: You can now order your own quarter-pound bacon cheeseburger from a welcoming, non-judging machine.

    Battling the worst sales slump in a decade and competition from build-your-own upstarts like Chipotle and Smashburger, McDonald’s is expanding a test concept built around ordering via tablet. Just tap on a screen and watch as your burger’s toppings (and calories) pile on, then wait for an employee to bring it over. No human interaction necessary.

    McDonald’s move towards dehumanization, launched as a pilot last winter and expanded across San Diego last week, is part of a larger trend of chain eateries turning tablets into your full-time restaurant buddy: equal parts menu, server and paycheck. Applebee’s, Panera Bread and even airport bars have installed tablets to allow diners to order food or booze without a wait.'


    McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a machine - The Washington Post


    This is what happens when - among other reasons - you start demanding higher pay then your position is worth (like fast food workers demanding $15/hr.).

    If these fast food workers force Congress to adopt a $15/hr. minimum wage? I guarantee you that the above will be the result...automation and mass layoffs.

    It ain't rocket science people - you are VERY replaceable.


    I do believe you have stretched a point here, linking automation with minimum wage, that 80 year old "progressive" demand.

    Please accept the new reality. Many big stores are moving to automation, self check outs etc. McDonalds has always appealed to youth, the generation on the move, and that generation today lives by the smart and tablet.

    In the end, as they remove more and more workers due to nifty automation machines there will be fewer and fewer workers at any given Mcdonalds, but they will need higher training to run the computerized equipment. So the minimum wage argument goes out the window entirely, a moot point. The real issue is the continuing loss of entry level jobs for Bachelor of Arts graduates.
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    Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Just like waitstaff, they have an excess # of part time cooks to call on. If not, they call up another restaurant and ask them if they can arrange for a cook to come in
    Other restaurants owned by the same owners? That might be possible. The menus might be similar and the resources of labor considered shared. But other restaurants/chains? Not on your life. You're living in a dream world.

    Depends on the restaurant. In many restaurants, the servers make more money on average.

    Besides, we're talking about order takers, not cooks. Those iPads aren't going to cook the burgers
    Hourly. Servers are the lowest-paid hourly employees. We were talking specifically about the costs of labor, so I am obviously talking about their hourly wages paid by the restaurant. Order takers are paid at the same hourly wage as cooks, generally speaking, as they do not make tips. The fact that I have to explain this to you is fairly sad. It seems like you are intentionally misunderstanding the facts at hand so you don't have to deal with the argument (which you are losing terribly).

    Good thing onbody said that "it's nothing really". Only an idiot would think someone has.
    You've made the assertion that 10% of gross is insignificant, over and over again. It's not. It's quite significant.

    I'm sure you have proof that McD's is lying about this and it's really motivated by cost-cutting
    I'm sure people ordering on a tablet is faster than having an order taken by virtue of being able to cheaply furnish more order taking stations and thus serving more customers simultaneously, thus increasing sales. But do you think McDonald's has held off on this specifically so they can keep paying for expensive labor? No! The most reasonable conclusion is that customers might react negatively to forced interaction with a machine instead of a person. A small effect in this vein was noticed when big box supermarkets started installing a few self-checkout stations. After several years and continued labor scale backs, people are pretty much ok with self-checkouts now, but there was pushback at first. McDonald's is obviously trying to avoid the "impersonal/robot/vending machine" vibe that automated order taking is likely to impart at first. Which makes this a marketing campaign to sell it to the consumer. Campaigns take time and money, which is obviously why McDonald's hasn't rolled this out yet. Money makes almost all of the decisions in a globally spanning enterprise.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
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    Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    Which makes this a marketing campaign to sell it to the consumer. Campaigns take time and money, which is obviously why McDonald's hasn't rolled this out yet. Money makes almost all of the decisions in a globally spanning enterprise.
    Yes. Precisely. I agree 100%. The wage of the employee isn't the deciding factor. Raising their wages to $15/hour doesn't make this go any faster. The tablet is already way, way cheaper. It's just a matter of getting the customer to accept it.
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    Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    I do believe you have stretched a point here, linking automation with minimum wage, that 80 year old "progressive" demand.

    Please accept the new reality. Many big stores are moving to automation, self check outs etc. McDonalds has always appealed to youth, the generation on the move, and that generation today lives by the smart and tablet.

    In the end, as they remove more and more workers due to nifty automation machines there will be fewer and fewer workers at any given Mcdonalds, but they will need higher training to run the computerized equipment. So the minimum wage argument goes out the window entirely, a moot point. The real issue is the continuing loss of entry level jobs for Bachelor of Arts graduates.
    It's a moot point to you, not to me.

    The main reason for automation is to save costs. If a company could pay it's workers a penny a day, they would probably never automate.

    And to me, my point is that if fast food workers push through a $15/hr. wage in America (which they are trying to do), then they will be signing their own pink slips (in many cases) because that move will massively increase the places where they work's incentive to automate.


    As for 'accepting' it?

    I already have, I would FAR prefer to be served by a robot then a human at McDonald's...by miles. And a TON of other places as well.

    They could automate 80+% of businesses and that would be absolutely fine wih me.

    I have no idea where you are getting the impression I feel otherwise.

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