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    Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    I'm not so sure about that. It costs McDonalds well in excess of $70,000 (@ $8/hr) to staff each 24 hour position for a year. Given a 24 hour store, one cash register and one grill/kitchen station cost nearly $140,000 in just wages MINIMUM.. then add in SS, Medicare, FICA, payroll tax, potential overtime, sick time, possible paid time off vacation days, benefits (albeit crappy ones), liability insurance... the list goes on.

    How much does a tablet cost?
    For one thing, 70K for 24/7/365 coverage is nothing compared to what the person brings in.

    Secondly, you're inflating the cost. You counted kitchen staff even though they're not being automated. Then you counted payroll taxes twice. Then you added in sick time and vacation, which those employees generally don't get.

    Finally, none of that addresses the point you responded to which is that labor costs are a small part of the business' expenses.
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    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    I'm not so sure about that. It costs McDonalds well in excess of $70,000 (@ $8/hr) to staff each 24 hour position for a year. Given a 24 hour store, one cash register and one grill/kitchen station cost nearly $140,000 in just wages MINIMUM.. then add in SS, Medicare, FICA, payroll tax, potential overtime, sick time, possible paid time off vacation days, benefits (albeit crappy ones), liability insurance... the list goes on.

    How much does a tablet cost?
    Exactly my point. The cost of the machine has long since stopped being a factor. It's already cheaper to buy a tablet.

    edit: for clarification, that means the bigger issue is development cost and development time. That's already underway. They could accelerate that development by throwing more engineers at it, but there are diminishing returns to that, and these folks have higher salaries.
    Last edited by Deuce; 09-23-14 at 10:36 AM.
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    Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    From a business standpoint this is a ridiculous move.

    The reason McDonalds's sales are slumping is because they have an inferior product as compared to their competition.
    Then again, this is America. Americans generally wouldn't know an inferior product from the real thing. After all, there's at least one poster who has stated that Chick Fil-A makes a quality product. . .

    Chick-fil-A or Chemical-Fil-A? - Food Babe

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    Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I do like the idea of the tablet due to the fact people can misunderstand.I know there has been more than one occasion I ordered a unsweetened iced tea and got a sweet iced tea.I can see why restaurants would want these tablets. Waiters can't be everywhere at once and customers might order additional food and drinls if they do not have to wait for their waiter who is currently busy at another table. These companies make billions of dollars even after expenses.
    And corporate welfare payments from uncle sammy.

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    Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    For one thing, 70K for 24/7/365 coverage is nothing compared to what the person brings in.
    And how much does that person bring in? The average McDonald's franchise grosses around $2.5 mil per year. $70k is almost 3% of that. That is not insignificant for a single employee. People often mistake an individual franchise with the megacorp; individual franchises are, for all intents and purposes, small businesses.

    Secondly, you're inflating the cost. You counted kitchen staff even though they're not being automated. Then you counted payroll taxes twice. Then you added in sick time and vacation, which those employees generally don't get.
    The assertion was made that minimum wage employees are completely expendable fodder whose wage isn't felt by any given business. This is false. The labor cost of running a 24 hour operation (two positions) runs well in excess of $140k per year. This is just a fact. If a business wanted to halve that cost, they could eliminate a position.

    People do call in sick, which adds a cost to the business (overstaffing to cover shortfalls, potential overtime, etc). Individual franchises run differently, but the one I worked at in high school offered a weeks paid vacation after one year, and I wasn't a manager or anything.

    Finally, none of that addresses the point you responded to which is that labor costs are a small part of the business' expenses.
    It all addresses the point. People who advocate for nearly doubling the minimum wage usually display untold ignorance of how businesses actually run. I recommend remedial math classes with an emphasis on fractions and percentages.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
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    Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    And how much does that person bring in? The average McDonald's franchise grosses around $2.5 mil per year. $70k is almost 3% of that. That is not insignificant for a single employee. People often mistake an individual franchise with the megacorp; individual franchises are, for all intents and purposes, small businesses.
    3% is, as described, a small fraction


    The assertion was made that minimum wage employees are completely expendable fodder whose wage isn't felt by any given business. This is false. The labor cost of running a 24 hour operation (two positions) runs well in excess of $140k per year. This is just a fact. If a business wanted to halve that cost, they could eliminate a position.
    No one made that assertion. You are exaggerating again.

    People do call in sick, which adds a cost to the business (overstaffing to cover shortfalls, potential overtime, etc). Individual franchises run differently, but the one I worked at in high school offered a weeks paid vacation after one year, and I wasn't a manager or anything.
    when people call in sick, they don't get paid and they call in someone else so there's no overstaffing or additional expense.

    It all addresses the point. People who advocate for nearly doubling the minimum wage usually display untold ignorance of how businesses actually run. I recommend remedial math classes with an emphasis on fractions and percentages.
    No, it didn't address the point at all because the point was that the labor expense associated with taking orders at McD's is a very small part of their expenses. Nothing you said contradicts that. All you did was show that there's some level of expense. You did not show that the level is high.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    3% is, as described, a small fraction




    No one made that assertion. You are exaggerating again.



    when people call in sick, they don't get paid and they call in someone else so there's no overstaffing or additional expense.



    No, it didn't address the point at all because the point was that the labor expense associated with taking orders at McD's is a very small part of their expenses. Nothing you said contradicts that. All you did was show that there's some level of expense. You did not show that the level is high.
    First, let me make a correction. 3% is a 24 hour staffed position, not an employee. So, gen that, we'call the night shift a total 24 hour period (2 12-hour shifts). For the other twelve hours of the day, you have a breakfast rush, a lunch rush, and a dinner rush. These periods require the heaviest staffing. I'll be generous and call it six employees to cover from breakfast through lunch for 8 hours, and six employees from lunch through dinner for 8 hours (lunch is their busiest time by far). 6 employees times 8 hours times two shifts equal 96 hours, or 4 24-hour shifts. Added to the two shifts required over night (one 24 hour period), we have 5 24-hour shifts to cover in any given day. That's more like 15% of gross. Minimum. Before SS, Medicare, payroll taxes, and benefits. This also doesn't count the manager or assistants, just the minimum wage positions.

    If you think calling in doesn't cost the business money, you have obviously never worked an hourly position let alone managed one. You probably also think training is free.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
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    Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    First, let me make a correction. 3% is a 24 hour staffed position, not an employee. So, gen that, we'call the night shift a total 24 hour period (2 12-hour shifts). For the other twelve hours of the day, you have a breakfast rush, a lunch rush, and a dinner rush. These periods require the heaviest staffing. I'll be generous and call it six employees to cover from breakfast through lunch for 8 hours, and six employees from lunch through dinner for 8 hours (lunch is their busiest time by far). 6 employees times 8 hours times two shifts equal 96 hours, or 4 24-hour shifts. Added to the two shifts required over night (one 24 hour period), we have 5 24-hour shifts to cover in any given day. That's more like 15% of gross. Minimum. Before SS, Medicare, payroll taxes, and benefits. This also doesn't count the manager or assistants, just the minimum wage positions.

    If you think calling in doesn't cost the business money, you have obviously never worked an hourly position let alone managed one. You probably also think training is free.
    You are, once again, exagerrating the costs. You're including the entire staff even though what is being discussed is the order takers.

    and if you're going to increase the demand in your hypothetical situation, then you have to increase the sales. If they need more people to service the counter, it's because they're selling more product.

    And add in the fact that you *still* have shown nothing about how much of their total expenses is spent on the people who take the orders. All you've shown is that it costs them some amount of money for which you earn a well deserved "Well, duh!"

    And I've been in the food service industry for several decades so I know that restaurants hire an excess # of part-time employees so they always can call someone to come in when someone else calls in sick.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    You are, once again, exagerrating the costs. You're including the entire staff even though what is being discussed is the order takers.

    and if you're going to increase the demand in your hypothetical situation, then you have to increase the sales. If they need more people to service the counter, it's because they're selling more product.

    And add in the fact that you *still* have shown nothing about how much of their total expenses is spent on the people who take the orders. All you've shown is that it costs them some amount of money for which you earn a well deserved "Well, duh!"

    And I've been in the food service industry for several decades so I know that restaurants hire an excess # of part-time employees so they always can call someone to come in when someone else calls in sick.
    Having too many extra employees without enough hours to share between them leads to shortfalls through attrition; people will quit if they aren't making enough money, which leads to training new employees (costs money) or understaffing and inferior service (costs money).

    I am not overestimating employee costs. You are underestimating them by refusing to acknowledge the total picture. A franchise like McDonald's probably runs in the neighborhood of 35-40% for labor cost. Every 3% you can chisel out of that helps enormously. Again, being generous, three staffed cashiers per rush and another for the night shift make 3.5 24-hr shifts, which is 10.5% of gross sales.

    10% is not insignificant.

    Further, if we're talking about a $15/hr Minimum, that number is more like 5-6%., which is around 20% of gross sales just for cashiers.

    How much does a tablet cost?
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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    Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    Having too many extra employees without enough hours to share between them leads to shortfalls through attrition; people will quit if they aren't making enough money, which leads to training new employees (costs money) or understaffing and inferior service (costs money).
    And yet, restaurants have been doing this for a long time, and it works just fine for them. Maybe they should hire you to tell them what idiots thay are


    I am not overestimating employee costs. You are underestimating them by refusing to acknowledge the total picture. A franchise like McDonald's probably runs in the neighborhood of 35-40% for labor cost. Every 3% you can chisel out of that helps enormously. Again, being generous, three staffed cashiers per rush and another for the night shift make 3.5 24-hr shifts, which is 10.5% of gross sales.
    Of course you're overestimating employee costs because this thread is about the automation of the order takers, and you're including the kitchen staff and management.

    And
    10% is not insignificant.
    It's a small fraction.

    Further, if we're talking about a $15/hr Minimum, that number is more like 5-6%., which is around 20% of gross sales just for cashiers.

    How much does a tablet cost?
    Read the thread title. McD's isn't doing this to cut costs. They're doing it to boost sales.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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