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  1. #101
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    Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    And whose fault is it that they didn't get an education and make good life decisions?
    Who are "they" and tell me a bit about their life?

    But I get it - it's their fault so you have no obligation to them. Let them eat cake I guess.

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    Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Justifying the opposition to automation because it has a negative effects on jobs is not unlike the Chinese guide in the story arguing that using construction equipment means you hire fewer laborers.

    Also, having double digit unemployment is a BETTER argument for not pushing for $15 minimum wage than it is for not automating.
    I accept automation as inevitable - opposing that is like opposing a rising tide.

    And as to your second point, as the supply of low skill labor goes up because of automation, "market" wages get further depressed. Others are blaming the poor for losing their jobs to automation and there not being other jobs for low skill workers to move into. But beyond that, is there any role for government or society? Or just let them beg like we've done for most of history. The problem exists now. Ignoring it or talking around it isn't an approach to dealing with it, neither is wishing they were all skilled, and were all above average intelligence, or all made excellent life choices.

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    Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    'If you’ve ever felt guilty ordering at McDonald’s, the fast-food mega-chain has just the fix: You can now order your own quarter-pound bacon cheeseburger from a welcoming, non-judging machine.

    Battling the worst sales slump in a decade and competition from build-your-own upstarts like Chipotle and Smashburger, McDonald’s is expanding a test concept built around ordering via tablet. Just tap on a screen and watch as your burger’s toppings (and calories) pile on, then wait for an employee to bring it over. No human interaction necessary.

    McDonald’s move towards dehumanization, launched as a pilot last winter and expanded across San Diego last week, is part of a larger trend of chain eateries turning tablets into your full-time restaurant buddy: equal parts menu, server and paycheck. Applebee’s, Panera Bread and even airport bars have installed tablets to allow diners to order food or booze without a wait.'


    McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a machine - The Washington Post


    This is what happens when - among other reasons - you start demanding higher pay then your position is worth (like fast food workers demanding $15/hr.).

    If these fast food workers force Congress to adopt a $15/hr. minimum wage? I guarantee you that the above will be the result...automation and mass layoffs.

    It ain't rocket science people - you are VERY replaceable.
    C'mon, this isn't about wages. If you can't make money while paying people $15/hr. your business is already down the toilet. You're losing the competition.
    This is about product. McDonalds can't sell their crap through a drive-through window so they're hoping even faster crap will sell from a machine. Their only hope is that their slave-wage employees each buy a dozen meals a week from their machines and they get some weird perpetual-motion thing working.
    Last edited by Grand Mal; 09-16-14 at 08:16 PM. Reason: spelling
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    Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Who are "they" and tell me a bit about their life?

    But I get it - it's their fault so you have no obligation to them. Let them eat cake I guess.
    The people who are stuck working for minimum wage, of course. If you want to learn more about them, go ask them. And yes, it is their fault and I have no obligation to them whatsoever. I didn't screw up my life. They did. Screw 'em.
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    Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I accept automation as inevitable - opposing that is like opposing a rising tide.

    And as to your second point, as the supply of low skill labor goes up because of automation, "market" wages get further depressed. Others are blaming the poor for losing their jobs to automation and there not being other jobs for low skill workers to move into. But beyond that, is there any role for government or society? Or just let them beg like we've done for most of history. The problem exists now. Ignoring it or talking around it isn't an approach to dealing with it, neither is wishing they were all skilled, and were all above average intelligence, or all made excellent life choices.
    You are sooo close to understanding the problem.

    Minimum wage sets a bar in the wage scale that an employer can not go below. There is no lower limit imposed on the cost of automation, however. When automation costs drops below the cost of employing a minimum wage staff the staff loses their job. By RAISING minimum wage you accelerate the process.

    Do I think government has a role? Yes and no. I don't think it is the Governments job to protect unskilled workers from automation. If there is a job for Government it is to promote the modernization of the work force. If people refuse to make use of the ample services already provided to help them gain a marketable skill then what more does society owe them?
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    You are sooo close to understanding the problem.

    Minimum wage sets a bar in the wage scale that an employer can not go below. There is no lower limit imposed on the cost of automation, however. When automation costs drops below the cost of employing a minimum wage staff the staff loses their job. By RAISING minimum wage you accelerate the process.
    Like I said earlier, the 'acceleration' will be IMO small.

    Do I think government has a role? Yes and no. I don't think it is the Governments job to protect unskilled workers from automation. If there is a job for Government it is to promote the modernization of the work force. If people refuse to make use of the ample services already provided to help them gain a marketable skill then what more does society owe them?
    "Promote the modernization..." Sounds good, but means little. You going to teach a person with an IQ of 80 to fix robots?

    And if a person with few skills doesn't catch on, they get to beg, their children go without healthcare, die early of treatable illness or disease, etc.?

    That's what I expected. No attempt to actually have an honest discussion.

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    Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    'If you’ve ever felt guilty ordering at McDonald’s, the fast-food mega-chain has just the fix: You can now order your own quarter-pound bacon cheeseburger from a welcoming, non-judging machine.

    Battling the worst sales slump in a decade and competition from build-your-own upstarts like Chipotle and Smashburger, McDonald’s is expanding a test concept built around ordering via tablet. Just tap on a screen and watch as your burger’s toppings (and calories) pile on, then wait for an employee to bring it over. No human interaction necessary.

    McDonald’s move towards dehumanization, launched as a pilot last winter and expanded across San Diego last week, is part of a larger trend of chain eateries turning tablets into your full-time restaurant buddy: equal parts menu, server and paycheck. Applebee’s, Panera Bread and even airport bars have installed tablets to allow diners to order food or booze without a wait.'


    McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a machine - The Washington Post


    This is what happens when - among other reasons - you start demanding higher pay then your position is worth (like fast food workers demanding $15/hr.).

    If these fast food workers force Congress to adopt a $15/hr. minimum wage? I guarantee you that the above will be the result...automation and mass layoffs.

    It ain't rocket science people - you are VERY replaceable.
    It ain't gonna work.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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    Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    The people who are stuck working for minimum wage, of course. If you want to learn more about them, go ask them. And yes, it is their fault and I have no obligation to them whatsoever. I didn't screw up my life. They did. Screw 'em.
    Well, you get bonus points for honesty I guess.

    And I work with them on a regular basis through a charity that takes in homeless people, over half of them veterans. So I have asked them. Not much point in saying more.

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    Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Those jobs are supposed to be filled by teenagers, kids living at home with most of their expenses covered, as a place to learn basic work skills and develop a work ethic. Then they move on, either up the ladder to better paying jobs, or elsewhere once they get their education. These jobs were never intended for a living wage and anyone who is trying to do so is doing it wrong. And I'm not talking about people who, due to the economic downturn, got stuck in a low-paying job, I'm talking about people who have NEVER had a decent job in their lives, yet they have kids and other expenses, voluntary expenses I might add, that now they expect society to cover because they are irresponsible. Anyone who doesn't live within their means is, by definition, irresponsible. It isn't the job of McDonalds or Walmart or anyone else to pay them more because they made bad life choices, it certainly isn't the job of the American taxpayer to pay for their stupid decisions. It is theirs. They need to get it through their heads and man up.
    What the **** are you talking about high school kids? these jobs are filled by retirees, those who lost jobs but can't find anything else except menial fast food in a pinch. it's not always black-and-white that teenagers should have these gigs as first jobs. My 68-year-old neighbor who lives across the street for me lost her husband last year and whatever her financial situation was, was forced her to take a job at Taco Bell. Everyone situation and circumstances are different so don't try n' call it until you walked in their shoes.

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    Re: McDonald’s fresh hope to turn around slumping sales: Ordering burgers from a mach

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Well, you get bonus points for honesty I guess.

    And I work with them on a regular basis through a charity that takes in homeless people, over half of them veterans. So I have asked them. Not much point in saying more.
    In other words, you have no real defense, you're just going to believe what you believe and can't actually argue why it's a valid position. Gotcha.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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