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Liberal Vermont Senator Sanders may seek U.S. presidency in 2016

Dittohead not! said:
Does voting with the Democrats make him a "mindless partisan hack"? If he were really so partisan, wouldn't he want a D after his name?
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I didn't say he was a "mindless partisan hack". He's not an Independent either.

He doesn't want a "D" next to his name because he isn't a "D". He's an admitted Socialist.
 
Dittohead not! said:
"Conventional" socialism, i.e., real socialism, means government ownership of the means of production A "Social Democrat" is another animal. Just what is a "democratic socialist"?
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Well to start off, socialism is actually common ownership over the means of production. Staunch socialism would be closer to direct democracy. Since direct democracy is rather difficult to establish and maintain, it often turns into a form of government. Historically, authoritarian governments have rose out of the chaos that results. Hence the confusion. 100% socialism cannot work on a national level without some form of government overseeing it, that's why there are so many spin-offs of socialism that enforce the system through government.

Democratic socialism is a more moderate and realistic form of that. Democratic socialists advocate for a socialist system through a democratic form of government. Socialism is usually analogous with some sort of democracy, but since socialism has consistently been applied in a totalitarian manner many socialists use "libertarian", "anarchist", or "democratic" to separate themselves from their authoritarian counterparts.
 
tres borrachos said:
I didn't say he was a "mindless partisan hack". He's not an Independent either.

He doesn't want a "D" next to his name because he isn't a "D". He's an admitted Socialist.
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The phrase "mindless partisan hack" came from the post I quoted.

If he calls himself a socialist, if he's really a socialist, then he must be for the government taking over US industry.
 
j-mac said:
He describes himself as a "Democratic Socialist".
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Being a "Democratic Socialist" doesn't mean you're a member of the Democratic Party. :doh Democratic is a name for a political party, yes, but the term "democratic" is usually applied to describe someone who advocates for a form of democracy (whether representative or direct).

Bernie Sanders belongs to no political party. That makes him an Independent.
 
Dittohead not! said:
The phrase "mindless partisan hack" came from the post I quoted.

If he calls himself a socialist, if he's really a socialist, then he must be for the government taking over US industry.
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He outlined some of his plans in his interview. He wants to emulate the Norway/Sweden/Denmark models. He's for a lot of things I could never support.

I know what the other poster said. I responded to your post that said you thought he was an Independent. He isn't.
 
tres borrachos said:
He outlined some of his plans in his interview. He wants to emulate the Norway/Sweden/Denmark models. He's for a lot of things I could never support.

I know what the other poster said. I responded to your post that said you thought he was an Independent. He isn't.
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So, he advocates for the sort of system that exists in the Scandinavian countries, which are actually capitalist economies, but with a number of services paid for in common that we pay for on the free market. Now I understand.

What party does he belong to again?
 
Dittohead not! said:
So, he advocates for the sort of system that exists in the Scandinavian countries, which are actually capitalist economies, but with a number of services paid for in common that we pay for on the free market. Now I understand.

What party does he belong to again?
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He claims no party. I think we already said that.

Who does he caucus with? The Dems. Who does he vote with 98% of the time? The Dems.

Sanders advocates free college, child care, and healthcare. He also advocates forcing income equality. Not capitalist in my book.
 
tres borrachos said:
He claims no party. I think we already said that.

Who does he caucus with? The Dems. Who does he vote with 98% of the time? The Dems.

Sanders advocates free college, child care, and healthcare. He also advocates forcing income equality. Not capitalist in my book.
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Isn't "claims no party" the same as "independent"?

"Free" child care, health care and college, i.e., paid for by taxes, might just pay dividends in the long run. Income equality isn't possible, but then, we have a huge disparity between the very rich and the very poor, with fewer and fewer in the middle. That just isn't a good economic model. Does he stand for a huge tax increase, then, or for redirecting taxes already collected?
 
Dittohead not! said:
Isn't "claims no party" the same as "independent"?

"Free" child care, health care and college, i.e., paid for by taxes, might just pay dividends in the long run. Income equality isn't possible, but then, we have a huge disparity between the very rich and the very poor, with fewer and fewer in the middle. That just isn't a good economic model. Does he stand for a huge tax increase, then, or for redirecting taxes already collected?
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I'll call him a true Independent when he votes against the Democratic Party once in a while. If we were discussing Michelle Bachmann or Ted Cruz right now claiming to be "Independent", the discussion would be no different.

He stands for higher taxes but refuses to say how much he'd raise them.
 
Montecresto said:
America's senator, and the most polite talk show host on the radio.
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Not anywhere near being "America's senator", though that is what Hartmann calls him. Harmann sounds like a great guy, I used to listen to him, but his show is no longer on the air here, but he is horribly wrong politically(at least in my view). Yeah, him and Sanders are like two peas in a pod politically, total enemies of the Constitution and individual liberties.
 
Anthony60 said:
Not anywhere near being "America's senator", though that is what Hartmann calls him. Harmann sounds like a great guy, I used to listen to him, but his show is no longer on the air here, but he is horribly wrong politically(at least in my view). Yeah, him and Sanders are like two peas in a pod politically, total enemies of the Constitution and individual liberties.
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Yes well I didn't speak to Hartmann's politics, though I understand your view. For anybody that's listened to plenty of talk radio, left and right, Thom Hartmann is in fact thee most calm, rational and polite to his callers, regardless of their positions, of all talk show hosts on the radio. Maybe Michael Smerconish is his equal. And that's such garbage to call Hartmann, or Sander's for that matter, enemies of the constitution. Americans are not enemies of the constitution, regardless of their political bias. There are differences in its interpretation and application regularly. As you describe it the Democratic Party is an enemy to the constitution, and though you and others here would probably agree that they are, it's a very ridiculous argument.
 
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TeleKat said:
I'm not a Democrat, I'm a registered Libertarian dip****. Quit being a hack.
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Now now...temper temper!

I GUARANTEE that come August of 2016 if she is the democrat candidate you will be singing her praises AND you will vote for her.
 
VanceMack said:
I GUARANTEE that come August of 2016 if she is the democrat candidate you will be singing her praises AND you will vote for her.
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Whatever, Vance. You're off in partisan hack loony land...so you go right on ahead. Apparently because I identify as a "leftist" that means I'll eagerly vote for a candidate that I absolutely despise, running on a party I absolutely despise, with a platform I absolutely despise because...you say so. :roll:

You and Mark Levin have alot in common. Because libertarians don't buy into the GOP bull****, we must be Democrats.

Oh and just an FYI, I've only voted for a Democratic candidate once in my entire life. So there goes your hackery right out the window.
 
APACHERAT said:
Lets see, the Democrats ran Obama as a black man in 2008. If the Democrats ran Sanders not as a socialist but as a liberal, we could end up with another socialist in the White House again.
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I didn't know that black man was a political office. I thought they ran Obama as a presidential candidate.
 
NIMBY said:
It's been several weeks now since Republican conservatives who hate Clinton have been promoting Sanders and Biden,
trying their best to employ the Nixonion card of "divide and conquer".

Since they can't stop their own candiates like Cruz and Paul from going off the rails,
they disengenuously try to play Dems off on each other.

So consider this post as something I've already spoken against on DP and will now be watching full-time.

It's just as bad as playing Latino-Americans against Conservative Democratsw on Immigration Reform.
And I'm just getting started .
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A lot of us would like to get a real liberal in office instead of the same old Clinton/Obama style centrist we have gotten.
 
TeleKat said:
Do you not know what the (I) next to his name means?
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Yes...it means he is a liberal hack that caucuses with the democrats, votes democrat, and is in every way shape and form a democrat...except he calls himself an 'independent'. :lamo

Hey...heres another funny one. John McCain called himself a 'maverick'!
 
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