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Thread: Liberal Vermont Senator Sanders may seek U.S. presidency in 2016

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    Re: Liberal Vermont Senator Sanders may seek U.S. presidency in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by fedup View Post
    Are we talking about the Fox News definition of "libertarian" or like, you know, the actual one? Making the claim that the corporatist protections the Koch Bros lobby for is indicative of even right-wing libertarianism is just plain silly. Making the claim that the entirety of the libertarian philosophy, left and right, was "made up" by two old white dudes that almost single-handedly fund a party antithetical to basically everything libertarian is...well really ****ing ignorant.
    exactly....

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    Re: Liberal Vermont Senator Sanders may seek U.S. presidency in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurmugeon View Post
    I think the defines of Libertarianism and its founders would make a fine Thread....

    But, it is NOT the subject of this Thread.

    -
    Right on both counts.

    Here it is
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Liberal Vermont Senator Sanders may seek U.S. presidency in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by FaceofBachmann View Post
    If Jefferson had his way, we'd still be a rural nation run by slaveowners. I take it down deep that is the libertarian vision.
    You really are a self-righteous partisan hack aren't you?

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    Re: Liberal Vermont Senator Sanders may seek U.S. presidency in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Right on both counts.

    Here it is
    Thank You.

    I'll be commenting tomorrow, when I've had a chance to see what others say first.

    Also, it is my bed time. Work starts at 4 am.

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    Re: Liberal Vermont Senator Sanders may seek U.S. presidency in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    you don't believe people believed in freedom before there was a word for it, or a philosophy to explain it?

    in any event, your ignorance isn't something you should keep defending.... acknowledge facts and move on.

    the Koch bros. did not found the Libertarian party or american libertarianism... that is just a plain ol' fact... acknowledge it and move on.
    I said they made up libertarianism... Really i should have said helped but its still true. They greatly helped to make it up would have been more accurate.

    One of The main forefathers to modern libertarianism is the john Birch's society. A founding member is Fred koch. The Koch's helped make up modern libertarianism for sure. without them, and their father, it wouldint be what it is today, and its likely no one would have ever heard of it, its highly possible it would have never existed. They especially helped in funding Ron Paul, and made him in charge of their old PAC citizens for a sound economy. They spread libertarian ideals greatly. They certainly contributed greatly to modern libertarianism and the teabagger movement looks at Ron as its godfather.

    Forgive me if I don't attribute the founding of libertarianism to a bunch of slave owners that certainly did not believe in liberty. Furthermore we are talking about a specific political philosophy, not just "freedom" or "liberty" so to say it existed before the word existed is lunacy.

    The libertarian party and teabaggers will always be tied to the Jon birch society and Koch's. That's just a fact. Whether you want to admit it or not is a whole different story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    stop insulting our intelligence....every single one of us knows better.

    ...they are not so different....whether you allow yourself to understand that or not is irrelevant.


    You mean they are so different? Cuz you said the tea party and libertarianism are not so different... Which is true, but I doubt that's what you meant.

    citizens for a sound economy (the PAC ron Paul headed) turned into freedom works and Americans for prosperity. The two PACs that are for or teabaggers.

    Are you saying the tea party never called themselves teabaggers? Because you would be wrong again.

    http://aattp.org/the-tea-party-actua...ves-teabagger/

    Quote Originally Posted by fedup View Post
    Are we talking about the Fox News definition of "libertarian" or like, you know, the actual one? Making the claim that the corporatist protections the Koch Bros lobby for is indicative of even right-wing libertarianism is just plain silly. Making the claim that the entirety of the libertarian philosophy, left and right, was "made up" by two old white dudes that almost single-handedly fund a party antithetical to basically everything libertarian is...well really ****ing ignorant.
    That's actually true that's the one place the koch ideology differs from libertarianism is corporate protections. All other points though are right in line with it. One of them even ran on the libertarian ticket in 1980.

    They did greatly help to popularize and spread it, and even helped shape allot of the modern libertarian ideology. Without he Jon birchs society libertarianism probably would have never existed. Fred koch was a founder and major contributor to that society.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    true that....

    as an additional off topic observation.... there was a time when Bernie could have been accurately described as Libertarian.
    the early 1800s or late 1790s, for example.
    today, he's just another huge government Democrat ( yes, i know he's technically an independent... but he about as independent as Hillary or Obama )
    Again Hilariously ignorant. The only form of libertarianism Bernie would fall into is socialist libertarian, and even still you fall way short because he believes in things like universal healthcare, government regulations (especially for financial institutions) and environmental protections. You just argued a socialist is a libertarian. Do you even know what libertarian or socialist means?? (23% of self described libertarians don't know what the word means so this would not surprise me)And I'm ignorant!?!?!?!? :Snarf:

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    Re: Liberal Vermont Senator Sanders may seek U.S. presidency in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurmugeon View Post
    I think Libertarianism started before America was official with the founder being Thomas Jefferson.

    -
    Not even close, bud.

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    Re: Liberal Vermont Senator Sanders may seek U.S. presidency in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by b_dubz View Post
    I said they made up libertarianism... Really i should have said helped but its still true. They greatly helped to make it up would have been more accurate.

    One of The main forefathers to modern libertarianism is the john Birch's society. A founding member is Fred koch. The Koch's helped make up modern libertarianism for sure. without them, and their father, it wouldint be what it is today, and its likely no one would have ever heard of it, its highly possible it would have never existed. They especially helped in funding Ron Paul, and made him in charge of their old PAC citizens for a sound economy. They spread libertarian ideals greatly. They certainly contributed greatly to modern libertarianism and the teabagger movement looks at Ron as its godfather.

    Forgive me if I don't attribute the founding of libertarianism to a bunch of slave owners that certainly did not believe in liberty. Furthermore we are talking about a specific political philosophy, not just "freedom" or "liberty" so to say it existed before the word existed is lunacy.

    The libertarian party and teabaggers will always be tied to the Jon birch society and Koch's. That's just a fact. Whether you want to admit it or not is a whole different story.



    You mean they are so different? Cuz you said the tea party and libertarianism are not so different... Which is true, but I doubt that's what you meant.

    citizens for a sound economy (the PAC ron Paul headed) turned into freedom works and Americans for prosperity. The two PACs that are for or teabaggers.

    Are you saying the tea party never called themselves teabaggers? Because you would be wrong again.

    The Tea Party Actually Did Call Themselves ‘Teabaggers’ | Americans Against the Tea Party



    That's actually true that's the one place the koch ideology differs from libertarianism is corporate protections. All other points though are right in line with it. One of them even ran on the libertarian ticket in 1980.

    They did greatly help to popularize and spread it, and even helped shape allot of the modern libertarian ideology. Without he Jon birchs society libertarianism probably would have never existed. Fred koch was a founder and major contributor to that society.
    In reference to the Libertarian Party you are correct. However the philosophy is much much much older than them.


    Again Hilariously ignorant. The only form of libertarianism Bernie would fall into is socialist libertarian, and even still you fall way short because he believes in things like universal healthcare, government regulations (especially for financial institutions) and environmental protections. You just argued a socialist is a libertarian. Do you even know what libertarian or socialist means?? (23% of self described libertarians don't know what the word means so this would not surprise me)And I'm ignorant!?!?!?!? :Snarf:
    He is a democratic socialist, which would make him a moderate left-libertarian directionally speaking.

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    Re: Liberal Vermont Senator Sanders may seek U.S. presidency in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by b_dubz View Post
    Once more libertarian (as a word) did not exist until 1789. How did it start before the word was a word?
    The word, yes, but not the philosophy behind it.

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    Re: Liberal Vermont Senator Sanders may seek U.S. presidency in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Not to be outdone by Conservative extremists, Liberals may have an extremist of their own running in 2016. To that I say "Run Bernie Run". This would definitely stop Hillary Clinton from gaining the White House. Her Neoliberal positions are every bit as dangerous as the Neocons were, and to be honest, I would rather see a Republican who is not a Neocon in office over Hillary.

    Discussion?

    Article is here.
    That twat has about enough chance as I do running for president.

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    Re: Liberal Vermont Senator Sanders may seek U.S. presidency in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by b_dubz View Post
    I said they made up libertarianism... Really i should have said helped but its still true. They greatly helped to make it up would have been more accurate.
    they neither helped nor made it up.... so either of your claims are false.
    Libertarianism was "founded" in the late 1700's

    the Kochs, at best, can only be described as funders... they throw money at things, they are not great thinkers, they are not philosophers...

    One of The main forefathers to modern libertarianism is the john Birch's society. A founding member is Fred koch. The Koch's helped make up modern libertarianism for sure. without them, and their father, it wouldint be what it is today, and its likely no one would have ever heard of it, its highly possible it would have never existed. They especially helped in funding Ron Paul, and made him in charge of their old PAC citizens for a sound economy. They spread libertarian ideals greatly. They certainly contributed greatly to modern libertarianism and the teabagger movement looks at Ron as its godfather.
    JBS is a conservative group, not a libertarian group.
    sorry, but your revisionism just doesn't stand up to even cursory scrutiny.

    sooner or later you are bound to say something accurate.... let's hope it's sometime soon.

    Forgive me if I don't attribute the founding of libertarianism to a bunch of slave owners that certainly did not believe in liberty. Furthermore we are talking about a specific political philosophy, not just "freedom" or "liberty" so to say it existed before the word existed is lunacy.
    the founding of libertarianism wasn't even on this Continent.... but the word has been around since the late late 1790's
    you might want to believe the word was invented in the 1970s when the Koch bros made up the entire philosophy... but what you believe is irrelevant to reality.

    The libertarian party and teabaggers will always be tied to the Jon birch society and Koch's. That's just a fact. Whether you want to admit it or not is a whole different story.
    I'm quite sure they are tied together in your head... but in reality, they aren't... that's just a fact.




    You mean they are so different? Cuz you said the tea party and libertarianism are not so different... Which is true, but I doubt that's what you meant.
    i was speaking about the Sons of liberty and the Tea party movement.... pay better attention.

    citizens for a sound economy (the PAC ron Paul headed) turned into freedom works and Americans for prosperity. The two PACs that are for or teabaggers.
    they are conservative Pacs.
    do you really not understand the difference between conservatism and libertarianism?

    Are you saying the tea party never called themselves teabaggers? Because you would be wrong again.
    nope not saying that at all... i'm saying that myself and everyone else here are not idiots and your little juvenile game is transparent to everyone.
    feel free to keep it up though.. i never stand in the way of another person discrediting himself.






    Again Hilariously ignorant. The only form of libertarianism Bernie would fall into is socialist libertarian, and even still you fall way short because he believes in things like universal healthcare, government regulations (especially for financial institutions) and environmental protections. You just argued a socialist is a libertarian. Do you even know what libertarian or socialist means?? (23% of self described libertarians don't know what the word means so this would not surprise me)And I'm ignorant!?!?!?!? :Snarf:
    flat out ....yes, you are ignorant... everything you think you know about libertariansim is wrong.. just wrong.
    the good news is .. ignorance is easily cured ( sorry , parroting idiot pundits isn't a cure to ignorance)
    at it's inception, Libertarianism was a word to describe socialists ( old school socialism, non-authoritarian socialism ... the sort that's all but dead)
    sure, times have changed.. Libertarianism has been more thoroughly developed ( the keys tenants remain the same, though)

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