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Thread: Liberal Vermont Senator Sanders may seek U.S. presidency in 2016

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    Re: Liberal Vermont Senator Sanders may seek U.S. presidency in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    He's not a controversial character. In fact, he's one of the least controversial because he admits to being a socialist, something most of them who are can't admit to.

    He doesn't oppose the Democrats on much, and never has. He's a Democrat to the core when it comes to his voting. People who pretend otherwise and cheer him like he's some Maverick are clueless. If he was elected POTUS, it would be no different than Elizabeth Warren or Hillary Clinton or Joe Biden. And like Obama, his hand would be forced to do things he wouldn't want to do because we don't elect dictators in this country, as you know.

    He's an interesting old guy, but he's a Democrat vote from top to bottom. Nothing independent about him.
    I guess by your standards there are NO "independent" people in either party in Washington?

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    Re: Liberal Vermont Senator Sanders may seek U.S. presidency in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    It's not really an opinion question, as in mine versus yours. It's just cold, hard math. Just look at the projected unfunded liabilities that this government has rung up and I don't know how anyone would vote for someone that would spend even more. And to think that we can just raise taxes, as if they aren't high enough already, to cover those Trillions of dollars is just a mathematical impossibility.
    i also support serious reprioritization of tax revenue. we aren't the world's pro bono immune system. regional hegemons need to handle their own ****.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    And as an aside, are we just working to give the fruits of our labors to the government? When you add State, sales, federal, fees, etc... into what you pay for things, we are already giving up half of our earnings, maybe more, to the government. I thought this country was founded on individual liberties, and not being a slave to the government.
    you benefit immensely from societal structure and order. you are paid in pieces of green paper that society has decided are worth anything. you have social safety nets in case you ever need them, and universal food and health care for the poor (though it is delivered in the most inefficient way possible because a good chunk of the country opposes every attempt to fix it,) so you are safe from them rioting or robbing your house when their kid needs food or antibiotics. you're also protected from highwaymen and regional warlords.

    "slave to the government" is hyperbole. you're a citizen of the US (and damned lucky to be one; a double digit percentage of the world would trade citizenship with you if given the chance.) in other words, you're in the catbird seat. taxes are the bill.

    however, this debt **** has to be addressed. i would address it with a foreign policy redesign, new revenue streams, and a new mission statement that we will pay for what we buy rather than put everything on the damned credit card. this **** really does bother me.

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    Re: Liberal Vermont Senator Sanders may seek U.S. presidency in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I guess by your standards there are NO "independent" people in either party in Washington?
    Not many. And he is certainly not one of them unless you can show me how often he stands up to the Dems?

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    Re: Liberal Vermont Senator Sanders may seek U.S. presidency in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Liberal? He's a democratic socialist.

    No, Sanders wouldn't stand a chance in hell. Unlike Perot or Ralph Nader, the guy would pull far less support.
    He would pull some, though, and not from the Republican voting pool.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Liberal Vermont Senator Sanders may seek U.S. presidency in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    I didn't imply you did. I said surely, you don't.

    Because he caucuses with the Democrats, does that make him a Democrat? Are his positions those of the Democrat Party?
    Why are you playing word games? I have said repeatedly in this thread that he votes with the Democrats 98% of the time.

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    Re: Liberal Vermont Senator Sanders may seek U.S. presidency in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Not many. And he is certainly not one of them unless you can show me how often he stands up to the Dems?
    I'd like to know even one person in D.C. that consistently stands up to their party. I don't think they exist by your standards.

    I can cite dozens of votes against MOST democrats - it's a matter of reviewing the record, and I started a list with a brief review. What's difficult is finding a case where he was the deciding NO vote, but again, I can't name any democrat or republican who occasionally or often provides the final no vote defeating a bill important to the rest of the caucus.

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    Re: Liberal Vermont Senator Sanders may seek U.S. presidency in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    He's opposed virtually all of Obama's foreign policy measures, speaks frequently about the civil liberties violations - he's FAR closer to Ron Paul than Obama, voted against the bank bailouts, voted against the Iraq war, and the war in Afghanistan, voted against confirming Brennan, voted against the National Defense Authorization Act, opposes reauthorization of the ExIm bank, voted against extending the payroll tax cut (worried that it was robbing from the SS fund), he opposes all "free trade" bills that I know of, and is vocal about the corrupt process of drafting them, including the current proposals like TPP, etc.

    If you want more than that, you can do your own research. He caucuses with democrats and therefore votes yes on things he doesn't approve of, but are the least bad option, like every known politician in world history, but I respect him and believe he's got more integrity than the VAST majority in D.C. If you don't, great. But you might listen to him a bit before deciding - I think you'll respect him even when you disagree.
    Obama wasn't President when the Iraq War was voted on.

    The bank bailouts had dissenters on both sides.

    How did he vote on Dodd-Frank? How did he vote on the ACA?

    I don't disrespect Sanders. I will never vote for him because I don't want single payer, I don't want to overtax successful people, I don't want free child care, I don't want to diminish the impact of college by making it High School part 2.

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    Re: Liberal Vermont Senator Sanders may seek U.S. presidency in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I'd like to know even one person in D.C. that consistently stands up to their party. I don't think they exist by your standards.

    I can cite dozens of votes against MOST democrats - it's a matter of reviewing the record, and I started a list with a brief review. What's difficult is finding a case where he was the deciding NO vote, but again, I can't name any democrat or republican who occasionally or often provides the final no vote defeating a bill important to the rest of the caucus.
    They don't carry an "I" behind their names, do they?

    He is a Liberal who wants socialism. I respect his honesty. I disagree with his desires.

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    Re: Liberal Vermont Senator Sanders may seek U.S. presidency in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    They don't carry an "I" behind their names, do they?

    He is a Liberal who wants socialism. I respect his honesty. I disagree with his desires.
    OK, just wondering who the true independents were, and there aren't any.

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    Re: Liberal Vermont Senator Sanders may seek U.S. presidency in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    OK, just wondering who the true independents were, and there aren't any.
    No but I think that was obvious to everyone before, wasn't it? He's no more independent than anyone else. Don't get me wrong though - I do respect the guy for admitting he's a socialist, which sets him apart in that regard.

    With the current structure in DC, no President is going to be able to change much. Single payer won't fly. We'll still march into ME countries (something I wish we would stop doing). And so on.

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