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Thread: Football team forced to remove crosses from helmets

  1. #341
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    Re: Football team forced to remove crosses from helmets

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    No, no, no. You're skipping ahead. Answer the question first. IF a school (any school...I'm talking general principle here, not this particular case) did not allow anything put on the helmets that wasn't authorized, and only authorized a single religious symbol of a particular religious group...would that be allowed under the Constitution or not?

    I will address your second part to get it out of the way, though:
    First show where the Supreme Court has ever ruled that nothing less than a formal state religion was a violation of the establishment clause.
    In any case, without the 14th amendment, a state religion is allowed and did occur...South Carolina had an official religion until the Civil War.
    By generalizing you distort the issue. Stick with the topic, and that is this school.

    The SCOTUS is not responsible for legislation. That's congress.
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    Re: Football team forced to remove crosses from helmets

    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    It doesn't offend me in the least. I'm 100% in favor of religious freedom.

    I'm saying it's unconstitutional to attempt to prevent an individual from displaying a religious symbol.
    It's not unconstitutional to force someone to display one particular one?
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    Re: Football team forced to remove crosses from helmets

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    It's not unconstitutional to force someone to display one particular one?
    Of course it is. Who was forced?

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    Re: Football team forced to remove crosses from helmets

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    It's not unconstitutional to force someone to display one particular one?
    Nobody is forcing anyone to do it. People are being forced not to do it.
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    Re: Football team forced to remove crosses from helmets

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    By generalizing you distort the issue. Stick with the topic, and that is this school.
    Nope, it's the opposite. Rules and laws are built on general principles and individual cases can distort. A desperate man steals food from someone rich in order to feed his starving family. Most would be in sympathy to that and understand the need in that particular case...but that doesn't mean laws against theft are unjust.

    So in analyzing a law or rule, we first have to examine the general case and general principle, and THEN look at how an individual case fits in.

    The SCOTUS is not responsible for legislation. That's congress.
    But SCOTUS is responsible for interpretation of the law. That's what a court is for.
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  6. #346
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    Re: Football team forced to remove crosses from helmets

    I see a "full of feces" situation ..here ..
    So, we must go to a higher level .. of "civil disobedience" .
    Refuse to play football !
    Liberals , do NOT miss this chance .. I am sure that the conservatives will be all over this one ..
    And I do NOT see how any establishment clause can apply..
    The school is a private entity, is it not ... and any public funds should NOT change this ..
    The school hierarchy is running on ignorance and fear .
    Freedom OF or FROM from religion ?? ...even I support the students(I am NOT religious ) , the "cross" on their helmet is what the majority want ..probably not every student "wants" this , but, to them, its such a little thing....and it should stay that way ..

  7. #347
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    Re: Football team forced to remove crosses from helmets

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    And I do NOT see how any establishment clause can apply..
    The school is a private entity, is it not ... and any public funds should NOT change this ..
    No it's not a private entity. It is a state-owned school.

    Freedom OF or FROM from religion ?? ...even I support the students(I am NOT religious ) , the "cross" on their helmet is what the majority want ..probably not every student "wants" this , but, to them, its such a little thing....and it should stay that way ..
    Is it freedom of? If the only way they can wear the crosses is specific approval by the school, then it's not freedom of religion. And the majority can not be given special rights that don't equally apply to the minority.

    If the school had the rule that players could put whatever they wanted (as long as it was not obscene or offensive etc) then there would be no issues with the crosses.
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

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    Re: Football team forced to remove crosses from helmets

    Quote Originally Posted by 1750Texan View Post
    You and the kids can claim anything you wish...but a determination in court is our constitutional legal system.

    In the eyes of the law...If no one is harmed, there is no a case.
    The courts have determined tine and again that students retain their civil rights at school functions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  9. #349
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    Re: Football team forced to remove crosses from helmets

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The courts have determined tine and again that students retain their civil rights at school functions.
    No one is arguing differently. The question is whether or not this case is of individual student civil rights, or unconstitutional endorsement by the school.
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

  10. #350
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    Re: Football team forced to remove crosses from helmets

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    No one is arguing differently. The question is whether or not this case is of individual student civil rights, or unconstitutional endorsement by the school.
    The players chose to display those crosses, not the school.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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