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Thread: Football team forced to remove crosses from helmets

  1. #321
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    Re: Football team forced to remove crosses from helmets

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    If someone wants to walk around with a cross on his helmet is not my problem. As long as it is completely and utterly of their own free choice and that the players/team/coaches then also respect the person who refuses to put a cross on their helmet because they think it does not symbolize what they believe.
    And as long is it was done with their own money and not public money.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Re: Football team forced to remove crosses from helmets

    The Supreme Court decisions on this kind of thing are all over the map. It's very hard to extract rules and principles from them, because each case seems to turn on details peculiar to it, without much rhyme or reason. Also, these cases often have involved both Free Speech Clause and Establishment Clause issues, and it's sometimes hard to understand why the analysis in a case was based on one clause instead of the other. The decisions, like the Court's decisions about religious displays in public places, make too much fuss about very minor details and at times seem arbitrary. The Court goes one way this time, the other way the next, and it's often very hard to see what made the difference.

    I think this jurisprudence could and should be simplified and made more rational by allowing much more religious expression in these situations. Let the Court stop making a production of every little incident. This country was founded by English Protestants, and the considerable interplay between religion and government that's given rise to in our history doesn't seem to have harmed us much. As the dissenters noted in Santa Fe Independent School Dist. v. Jane Doe, a 2000 decision involving student-initiated prayers before high school football games, "George Washington himself, at the request of the very Congress which passed the Bill of Rights, proclaimed a day of 'public thanksgiving and prayer, to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal favors of Almighty God....'"

    All this stuff is a fairly recent development--until 1947, any state that wanted to could have declared its own official religion. A century and a half passed before the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment was first applied to the states. This country was at least as religious as today during that long period, which saw a Civil War, two World Wars, and the Great Depression, among other social stresses. But even so, our history does not show state governments turning into theocracies. The current hypervigilance is silly and uncalled for. It is also a sign of the bitter animosity many people who ironically like to see themselves as more-tolerant-than-thou harbor toward all things religious.
    Last edited by matchlight; 09-14-14 at 09:34 PM.

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    Re: Football team forced to remove crosses from helmets

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    [emphasis added by bubba]

    but you did. from post #306:
    here's a hint. when you post something, the rest of us can read it, too

    , and a misunderstanding of what has actually been said is an ongoing problem with leftists. Leftists should be more concerned about the incredible amount of money being wasted at educational facilities rather whether the athletic department of a university allowed students to put a star on their helmet to honor dead friends.
    This inability to understand the difference between the important and the trivial has made leftists a petty, officious group, petulant adolescents insisting on their own way and stamping their feet until they get it. Their own education system has failed them, though of course they don't know it, and will rattle on about stars on helmets as though defending the inevitable collapse of civilization.
    What a bunch of loons!
    You should quote the entire sentence and not remove it from context. I said "Didn't the students lose their right to put a cross on their helmet after it was approved by the athletic department?" In other words the Athletic Department gave them that right. That's not so hard to understand unless you dishonestly remove the latter part of the sentence.

  4. #324
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    Re: Football team forced to remove crosses from helmets

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The kids not making a stand doesn't mean their civil rights weren't violated.
    You and the kids can claim anything you wish...but a determination in court is our constitutional legal system.

    In the eyes of the law...If no one is harmed, there is no a case.


  5. #325
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    Re: Football team forced to remove crosses from helmets

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Yes there is - it's called the First Amendment...

    Your big goddamn government cannot stop an individual from placing a crucifix on their helmet...

    Of course you being a progressive you don't understand that - individual freedoms and rights.

    The 1st amendment is not a free pass for anyone to say or do as they wish...where ever they wish. That is not me saying so it is 230 year of American jurisprudence saying so.

    Christians need to wake up and realize their free pass is over...Christians have to operate under the law just like any other American.


  6. #326
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    Re: Football team forced to remove crosses from helmets

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    The Supreme Court decisions on this kind of thing are all over the map. It's very hard to extract rules and principles from them, because each case seems to turn on details peculiar to it, without much rhyme or reason. Also, these cases often have involved both Free Speech Clause and Establishment Clause issues, and it's sometimes hard to understand why the analysis in a case was based on one clause instead of the other. The decisions, like the Court's decisions about religious displays in public places, make too much fuss about very minor details and at times seem arbitrary. The Court goes one way this time, the other way the next, and it's often very hard to see what made the difference.

    I think this jurisprudence could and should be simplified and made more rational by allowing much more religious expression in these situations. Let the Court stop making a production of every little incident. This country was founded by English Protestants, and the considerable interplay between religion and government that's given rise to in our history doesn't seem to have harmed us much. As the dissenters noted in Santa Fe Independent School Dist. v. Jane Doe, a 2000 decision involving student-initiated prayers before high school football games, "George Washington himself, at the request of the very Congress which passed the Bill of Rights, proclaimed a day of 'public thanksgiving and prayer, to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal favors of Almighty God....'"

    All this stuff is a fairly recent development--until 1947, any state that wanted to could have declared its own official religion. A century and a half passed before the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment was first applied to the states. This country was at least as religious as today during that long period, which saw a Civil War, two World Wars, and the Great Depression, among other social stresses. But even so, our history does not show state governments turning into theocracies. The current hypervigilance is silly and uncalled for. It is also a sign of the bitter animosity many people who ironically like to see themselves as more-tolerant-than-thou harbor toward all things religious.
    The US already gives tremendous exemptions and benefits to religious entities...If Americans can't see that and want a Constitutional fight over their belief that Christianity is "under attack"...I say those benefits and exemptions be rescinded.

    The US may have protected classes...But we need to end this belief that the US has a superior class.


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    Re: Football team forced to remove crosses from helmets

    I don't believe in religion, but this is just sad. Damn sad. What harm would it have done to let them wear the crosses?

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    Re: Football team forced to remove crosses from helmets

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I don't believe in religion, but this is just sad. Damn sad. What harm would it have done to let them wear the crosses?
    Why should anyone have to "let" them wear crosses? Isn't freedom of religion a guaranteed constitutional right? Funny, I don't see freedom from religion anywhere in the Constitution.

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    Re: Football team forced to remove crosses from helmets

    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    Why should anyone have to "let" them wear crosses? Isn't freedom of religion a guaranteed constitutional right? Funny, I don't see freedom from religion anywhere in the Constitution.
    I agree with you.

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    Re: Football team forced to remove crosses from helmets

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I agree with you.
    I know, I was merely making a point. Didn't mean to sound like I was disagreeing with anything you said.

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