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Thread: Football team forced to remove crosses from helmets

  1. #121
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    Re: Football team forced to remove crosses from helmets

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post

    Nobody is forcing these young men to wear this cross - they do it freely, of their own will and their own constitutional rights, and the purity of their feelings and respect for their lost friends and colleagues should far outweigh the offense felt by some asshole sitting on their couch suddenly finding an issue to bleat about.
    John, I would remind you that peer pressure, especially in high school and even more especially as a member of a team, is significant. We don't know, no one does, how many players on the team would prefer not to wear the cross symbol. We do know from our own life experiences that those kids who disagree are highly unlikely to speak up. In addition, the act of placing a religious symbol on their helmets may discourage non-Christian kids from trying out for football. Lastly, unless people read about it in the press, anyone unfamiliar with the reason for the symbol and most opposing teams only see the cross and it is thus left up to interpretation.

    As I said previously, anyone can claim offense regarding anything if they simply try hard enough. And what a sad life a person must lead when that is their primary accomplishment.
    The same can be said for religious martyrdom. Just this week I read where a teacher in Georgia is burning all his sick days to protest the fact that he can't talk about Jesus in the public school classroom. In an interview he admitted that he did do it and said that as Christ grows in him he talks more about Jesus in the classroom, but that it was his right to share Jesus's message with the class and that he was being punished for his religious views.

    We do hear/read about this sort of self imposed religious martyrdom frequently. "They won't let God in the classroom", "They hate Jesus", "They want to silence the word of the Lord".










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    Re: Football team forced to remove crosses from helmets

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck Ewer View Post
    What are ya gonna do apdst? Shoot em?
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    Re: Football team forced to remove crosses from helmets

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    John, I would remind you that peer pressure, especially in high school and even more especially as a member of a team, is significant.
    Read the article, first sentence:

    Football players at Arkansas State University

  4. #124
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    Re: Football team forced to remove crosses from helmets

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    John, I would remind you that peer pressure, especially in high school and even more especially as a member of a team, is significant. We don't know, no one does, how many players on the team would prefer not to wear the cross symbol. We do know from our own life experiences that those kids who disagree are highly unlikely to speak up. In addition, the act of placing a religious symbol on their helmets may discourage non-Christian kids from trying out for football. Lastly, unless people read about it in the press, anyone unfamiliar with the reason for the symbol and most opposing teams only see the cross and it is thus left up to interpretation.



    The same can be said for religious martyrdom. Just this week I read where a teacher in Georgia is burning all his sick days to protest the fact that he can't talk about Jesus in the public school classroom. In an interview he admitted that he did do it and said that as Christ grows in him he talks more about Jesus in the classroom, but that it was his right to share Jesus's message with the class and that he was being punished for his religious views.

    We do hear/read about this sort of self imposed religious martyrdom frequently. "They won't let God in the classroom", "They hate Jesus", "They want to silence the word of the Lord".
    Good afternoon Risky,

    I'd say two things:

    1. I can't imagine that any young man who loves football and wants to play for his school team is going to be dissuaded from doing so because the team wants to honor their fallen colleagues with a tiny cross on their helmets. To me, that's just absurdly illogical.

    2. I won't address your second point, it not being relevant in my view, and it represents a clear disruption to the education program whereas the topic of this OP offers no such disruption to the playing of football or the enjoyment of watching football.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  5. #125
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    Re: Football team forced to remove crosses from helmets

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Read the article, first sentence:
    Still a team, what was your point?
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  6. #126
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    Re: Football team forced to remove crosses from helmets

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    Still a team, what was your point?
    His point is that it's a State University - therefore funded by the "state" and therefore such connection impinges on the separation of church and state ---- at least that's what I think he's saying.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Football team forced to remove crosses from helmets

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    His point is that it's a State University - therefore funded by the "state" and therefore such connection impinges on the separation of church and state ---- at least that's what I think he's saying.
    Sorry, no. Risky seemed to think this was a high school team and went on about peer pressure. Had he read and understood the article, in the very first sentence we find out it is a university team.

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    Re: Football team forced to remove crosses from helmets

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Sorry, no. Risky seemed to think this was a high school team and went on about peer pressure. Had he read and understood the article, in the very first sentence we find out it is a university team.
    TY for the correction!
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  9. #129
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    Re: Football team forced to remove crosses from helmets

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Read the article, first sentence:
    I realize that. Perhaps I should have been more concise. My point was that these kids are right out of high school and deeply influenced by peer pressure. It is ingrained in them. They barely adults, peer pressure is at it's greatest. Try rocking the boat with the powers that be when you are on scholarship to play a sport. I don't know that many of those kids have that much conviction.

    Arguments have been made regarding the legality of the stickers in that the state owns the helmets, I concur. It is in essence a state sponsored entity tacitly supporting a specific faith. It is in essence forcing religious symbols on players via peer pressure unless it can be proved that it is not.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



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    Re: Football team forced to remove crosses from helmets

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    From what I can tell, students adding crosses to the helmet should be protected speech. The speech would have to run afoul of some fairly specific constraints to be restricted -- e.g. too vulgar, imminently threatening etc.

    It would be different if a school representative mandated it. That's not the case here.

    I don't see any reason why students can decorate their football uniforms, as long as it is voluntarily and of their own accord.
    The school coaches were part of the decision to use the stickers. This is not just the players idea.

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