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New Michael Brown shooting witnesses describe scene

I believe we have two separate things being said by witnesses.

1.) The lie from Dorian, PC and TM, that his hands were up surrendering.
and
2.) the hands up in a taunting gesture towards the Officer, not in actual surrender.

#1 turns out to be lies. They have changed their accounts to say his hands were going up and it was just a little bit up at the very end. Which is not up surrendering as they previously said, and is drastically contrasted by what the worker shows and more in line with what Michael Brady states.


While #2 occurred while taunting the Officer prior to the all the shots in the front when Brown was approaching the Officer.

Unlike the jfk assassination there will be no ambiguity about Brown being shot from the front. I think that's huge, along with being punched in the face while inside the car. There will be alternative explanations also, such as that Wilson was trying to get Brown out of the car instead of pulling him in.
 
The witness at the end of the video said he was not turned away but was facing him and that he did not have his hands up but under his armpits. Point being...in the same news story there are two completely conflicting accounts.

No, the stories given by the other witnesses in the video DO NOT contradict one another. Once again, the witness you're referring to, Michael Brady, provides an account of what he saw after he left his apartment vantage point and came down to street level to get a closer view of what was going on. Mr. Brady's words from the video (grammatically corrected):

By the time I got outside, he's [Michal Brown] already turned around facing the officer. He's bald up. He has his arms under his stomach and he was half-way down. And the officer lets off (fires) about 3 or 4 shots at him.

His account of what took place picks up after Michael Brown was already shot at least once. Nothing he says conflicts with the known facts:

- Michael Brown was not fleeing at the time he was shot.

- Michael Brown was facing the officer at the time he was shot.

- Michael Brown was unarmed.

- Michael Brown was shot multiple times.

The reason you continue to harp on this one witness's account is obvious: He's the only one who doesn't state emphatically that Michael Brown did, in fact, have his arms up before being shot. But again, there's a reason he never claims having made such an observation: His observation of what took place was broken. The critical moment you cling to and discount occurred as Mr. Brady was leaving his apartment in his attempt to get down to street level to further witness what was going on.

So, again, let's not gloss over the witnesses accounting or discount it just to frame your own idea of what happened and pass it off as truth.
 
Excon,

It's good that you're providing links to other witness accounts or videos or other articles that expand on the accounts already given by the same witnesses mentioned in the OP video. However, since this thread is clearly based on the CNN video, it was the only video I've commented on. I haven't neither seen nor read the material you've provided. I will in due time, but to throw such material into the discussion and act as if people are being bias against it when they (like myself) likely have never even reviewed it is wrong.

What you, VanceMack and others seem to be trying to do is paint everyone else who disagrees with your perspective of this event as bias against the police officer. You even seem to get alittle more defensive when you know the person who doesn't share your exact viewpoint is a minority (Black). I can understand how you would think that every Black person who is commenting on this tragic even are on Michael Brown's side and not Officer Wilson's, but that just confirms to me that you're being just as bias as you clearly believe others to be. A clear example is how you go out of your way to make at distinction between Michael Brown having his arms raised because he was surrendering versus him having his arms up because he was taunting the police officer as he approached. Regardless of one's perspective or opinion as to why his arms were raised, it doesn't negate the fact that Michael Brown's arms were still raised at the time he was shot to death.

Now, was Michael Brown may have been aggressive throughout the ordeal, but what most people are saying here is at the time he was shot it's very possible that Officer Wilson could have used non-lethal force to subdue him. But until it's clear whether or not there was a de-escalation of hostilities, it's unclear if Office Wilson had time to change gears to halt his alleged aggressor in the moments before Michael Brown's death.

Regardless, I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'm more than willing to wait until all the evidence is heard before claiming guilty or innocent, murder or self-defense.
 
What you, VanceMack and others seem to be trying to do is paint everyone else who disagrees with your perspective of this event as bias against the police officer. You even seem to get alittle more defensive when you know the person who doesn't share your exact viewpoint is a minority (Black).
Let me very concise.
Bs! You are wrong!
Your interpretation skills of others actions apparently do not exist and are jaded by your own clearly biased views.
I have no clue who is black, and although a think there have been two who have indicated they were, I do not recall who they are, nor do I care. So stop the racist bs.


However, since this thread is clearly based on the CNN video, it was the only video I've commented on.
Doesn't matter to pointing out information, and also irrelevant as you were commenting on other information as well.


but to throw such material into the discussion and act as if people are being bias against it when they (like myself) likely have never even reviewed it is wrong.
Wtf are you talking about?


I can understand how you would think that every Black person who is commenting on this tragic even are on Michael Brown's side and not Officer Wilson's, but that just confirms to me that you're being just as bias as you clearly believe others to be.
Holy ****! Again, wtf are you talking about? Nothing you said is true. So just an example of your own biased view.
Secondly. Get a grip. This isn't about me.


A clear example is how you go out of your way to make at distinction between Michael Brown having his arms raised because he was surrendering versus him having his arms up because he was taunting the police officer as he approached.
Holy crap! More nonsense from you.
There is a difference between hands up in surrender, and hands up taunting. Especially when accompanied with words of taunt. Or do you not know that?
And pointing that out does not show a bias.


it doesn't negate the fact that Michael Brown's arms were still raised at the time he was shot to death.
Wrong.
That is contested by other accounts.
Even the liars have changed their accounts to say they were going up at that time. Which means they were not up according to them.
And as I pointed out to Vance, I believe two separate points in time are being related.


Now, was Michael Brown may have been aggressive throughout the ordeal, but what most people are saying here is at the time he was shot it's very possible that Officer Wilson could have used non-lethal force to subdue him.
Doesn't matter. Brown attempting to take the Officers gun and injuring the Officer while doing so establishes him a lethal threat.


But until it's clear whether or not there was a de-escalation of hostilities, it's unclear if Office Wilson had time to change gears to halt his alleged aggressor in the moments before Michael Brown's death.
Oy Vey!
Brown was approaching the Officer as the Officer fired at him.
His approaching is not a de-escalation.


Regardless, I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'm more than willing to wait until all the evidence is heard before claiming guilty or innocent, murder or self-defense.
If you do not want to discuss what is known and what may possibly be, stop discussing. It is that simply.
 
Excon,

It's not about you and yet you took the time to dissect my post piece-by-piece to make yourself seem relevant. Just as you call BS on me, I call BS on you as well.

You've purposely gone out of your way to pull other material into this threat just to counter everything the witnesses said they observed in the OP. Granted, they have every right to change their views but if we're being honest the only reason you'd post the material in the first place is to counter each account given in support of your point of view on the matter which clearly leans more towards "Michael Brown was wrong every step of the way" not to expand on or correct witness accounts as previously given. In any case, maybe Michael Brown's actions were wrong every step of the way and I wouldn't dispute that if after trial all the evidence supports such a claim, but since we don't know what really happened...

So, again, I say let's not gloss over the witnesses accounting or discount it just to frame your own idea of what happened and pass it off as truth.
 
Excon,

It's not about you and yet you took the time to dissect my post piece-by-piece to make yourself seem relevant. Just as you call BS on me, I call BS on you as well.

You've purposely gone out of your way to pull other material into this threat just to counter everything the witnesses said they observed in the OP. Granted, they have every right to change their views but if we're being honest the only reason you'd post the material in the first place is to counter each account given in support of your point of view on the matter which clearly leans more towards "Michael Brown was wrong every step of the way" not to expand on or correct witness accounts as previously given. In any case, maybe Michael Brown's actions were wrong every step of the way and I wouldn't dispute that if after trial all the evidence supports such a claim, but since we don't know what really happened...

So, again, I say let's not gloss over the witnesses accounting or discount it just to frame your own idea of what happened and pass it off as truth.
More nonsense from you again.
This nonsense is so typical.
You don't like how it is going so you attack the poster and don't address the actual information.
Like I said, get a grip.
This isn't about me.
So stop spewing the bs.
And no, I didn't go out of my way to counter what they said, I provided additional information of what has been said.
[sarcasm] My Gawd, the horrors. Excon provided more information so we can all be more informed and from more accurate opinions of what occurred. The horrors I tell you! [/sarcasm] :doh
All you are doing is whining because you do not like what was provided. Get over it and deal with the damn information.



The evidence we know of, and have been informed of, doesn't say two things.
Your inability to discern what that is, is not my problem.


Either address the information or ignore the topic. It is that simple.
 
If I had to choose between a third-party witness accounting of what he was told happened versus those who actually witnessed what took place on the scene, I'd take the eyewitnesses account bar none.

Just saying...someone tells you what took place and you retell it to someone else, i.e, "he told me..." OR words straight from those who were there to see events unfold with their own eyes. You be the judge.

That's not true at all. It was a conversation picked up on camera much like the two contractors, but without their faces shown. In fact No. 2 pretty much corroborates Wilson's account and seems to have seen the whole thing. This would certainly be one of the 12 witnesses the Police have who support what apparently happened in this case.

"Then the next thing I know he doubled back toward him"

#2 The police kept dumpin on him, and I’m thinking the police kept missing – he like – be like – but he kept coming toward him
 
No, the stories given by the other witnesses in the video DO NOT contradict one another. Once again, the witness you're referring to, Michael Brady, provides an account of what he saw after he left his apartment vantage point and came down to street level to get a closer view of what was going on. Mr. Brady's words from the video (grammatically corrected):



His account of what took place picks up after Michael Brown was already shot at least once. Nothing he says conflicts with the known facts:

- Michael Brown was not fleeing at the time he was shot.

- Michael Brown was facing the officer at the time he was shot.

- Michael Brown was unarmed.

- Michael Brown was shot multiple times.

The reason you continue to harp on this one witness's account is obvious: He's the only one who doesn't state emphatically that Michael Brown did, in fact, have his arms up before being shot. But again, there's a reason he never claims having made such an observation: His observation of what took place was broken. The critical moment you cling to and discount occurred as Mr. Brady was leaving his apartment in his attempt to get down to street level to further witness what was going on.

So, again, let's not gloss over the witnesses accounting or discount it just to frame your own idea of what happened and pass it off as truth.
If his hands were under his armpits then they werent over his head at the time the last shots were fired.

There are numerous accounts, many of them contradictory, and that DOESNT include the reports eyewitnesses have given that reportedly given to LE that support the officers account. Rather than hear a few snippets and think you know what happened, maybe you should wait until you have all the facts.
 
Excon,

I took time to listen to the eyewitness account from "Steve" in the 1st video in your post #49 and nothing he said changes what I previously posted, towit:

Post #38 - These two new witness statements confirm what other witnesses have already said, that:

1) Michael Brown was running away from the police officer;

2) Officer Wilson did shoot at Michael Brown as he was running away which would support how some witnesses wrongfully made the claim that Michael Brown was "shot in the back";

3) Michael Brown did have his hand up.

4) Michael Brown was shot multiple times, once in the head, several times in the body.

5) Michael Brown died of multiple gun shot wounds.

...or...

Post #52 - No, the stories given by the other witnesses in the video DO NOT contradict one another. Once again, the witness you're referring to, Michael Brady, provides an account of what he saw after he left his apartment vantage point and came down to street level to get a closer view of what was going on.

...


His account of what took place picks up after Michael Brown was already shot at least once. Nothing he says conflicts with the known facts:

- Michael Brown was not fleeing at the time he was shot.

- Michael Brown was facing the officer at the time he was shot.

- Michael Brown was unarmed.

- Michael Brown was shot multiple times.

From your post, witness "Steve" even said:

He heard the first shots from his patio and went outside to see what was going on. That the police officer was shooting (at Michael Brown) from the rear and that Michael Brown turned around going back towards the office and that's when the officer unloaded on him. Michael Brown then fell to his knees.

Now, just as with the last witness in the CNN video, "Steve" didn't see Michael Brown with his hands up either, but he acknowledged what he heard from the crowd yelling, "He had his hands up".

So, again, nothing you've presented changes anything I've stated above. However, you are right to question whether or not Michael Brown was being genuine, i.e., surrendering to authority, when he allegedly had his hands up OR if he was still being aggressive and "taunting" Officer Wilson as he approached daring him to shoot him. I will grant you that Michael Brown likely did not have his hands up because he was surrendering to police authority. Furthermore, I'll even grant you that Michael Brown was likely taunting Officer Wilson as he moved toward him. I've even said in other threads on this topic that it's very possible that Michael Brown did double-back onto Officer Wilson AND it's likely either Officer Wilson was caught off guard and didn't notice Michael approaching until the last moment OR the situation progressed so rapidly that it didn't deescalated, thus, allowing Officer Wilson the opportunity to consider using non-lethal force against his aggressor. Moreover, I can even see Officer Wilson reflectively going for his gun for the simple fact that he was attacked by Michael Brown mere moments beforehand. I've even questioned these last moments. So, don't mistake what I've presented as factual eyewitness accounts as defense of Michael Brown or guilt of Officer Wilson. I'm very willing to let the evidence speak for itself once presented before claiming guilt or innocence, murder or self-defense.

As to the rest of your comments, I stand by my position as to why I believe you posted the additional material.
 
Excon,

I took time to listen to the eyewitness account from "Steve" in the 1st video in your post #49 and nothing he said changes what I previously posted, towit:

...or...

From your post, witness "Steve" even said:

Now, just as with the last witness in the CNN video, "Steve" didn't see Michael Brown with his hands up either, but he acknowledged what he heard from the crowd yelling, "He had his hands up".

So, again, nothing you've presented changes anything I've stated above. However, you are right to question whether or not Michael Brown was being genuine, i.e., surrendering to authority, when he allegedly had his hands up OR if he was still being aggressive and "taunting" Officer Wilson as he approached daring him to shoot him. I will grant you that Michael Brown likely did not have his hands up because he was surrendering to police authority. Furthermore, I'll even grant you that Michael Brown was likely taunting Officer Wilson as he moved toward him. I've even said in other threads on this topic that it's very possible that Michael Brown did double-back onto Officer Wilson AND it's likely either Officer Wilson was caught off guard and didn't notice Michael approaching until the last moment OR the situation progressed so rapidly that it didn't deescalated, thus, allowing Officer Wilson the opportunity to consider using non-lethal force against his aggressor. Moreover, I can even see Officer Wilson reflectively going for his gun for the simple fact that he was attacked by Michael Brown mere moments beforehand. I've even questioned these last moments. So, don't mistake what I've presented as factual eyewitness accounts as defense of Michael Brown or guilt of Officer Wilson. I'm very willing to let the evidence speak for itself once presented before claiming guilt or innocence, murder or self-defense.
:doh:roll: :doh


As to the rest of your comments, I stand by my position as to why I believe you posted the additional material.
Then you stand by horse**** and inappropriateness.
 
‘A dozen witnesses’ say Ferguson teen attacked cop before shooting | New York Post

Multiple witnesses in riot-torn Ferguson, Mo., said that the unarmed black teen killed by a white cop attacked the officer in his patrol car before the teen was shot, according to a new report.

“Police sources tell me more than a dozen witnesses have corroborated cop’s version of events in shooting,” St. Louis Post-Dispatch crime reporter Christine Byers tweeted, without elaborating.




Darren Wilson is 100% innocent.

You know she's just a bigot right? :2razz:
 
Then I must be standing real close to you, my friend.

How cute, but is doesn't work that way. You already stated what you stood by, your position, which is nothing but horse**** and was inappropriate to even post.
You don't get to change that.
 
These witnesses did not say they were hands up in the air surrendering.
And if the video is any indication of how the hands were up, that fits perfectly with the hearsay account of taunting the Officer, not up as in surrendering.

The original account of this topic was published on the 7th.

It is reported that the worker said the following.

Then Brown moved, the worker said. “He’s kind of walking back toward the cop.” He said Brown’s hands were still up.

Wilson began backing up as he fired, the worker said.

After the third shot, Brown’s hands started going down, and he moved about 25 feet toward Wilson, who kept backing away and firing. The worker said he could not tell from where he watched — about 50 feet away — if Brown’s motion toward Wilson after the shots was “a stumble to the ground” or “OK, I’m going to get you, you’re already shooting me.”

Workers who were witnesses provide new perspective on Michael Brown shooting : News


Secondly, it is kind of obvious that many witnesses are just repeating what they heard from others.
This account may be no different.

It is reported that they were 50 feet away. And that simply isn't true. The workers notes indicate they were 40-50 yards away, not feet.
And if one estimates the distance they are at in the video, they are about 75 yards from the scene. And if in the the ditch they were digging in, further.

Then it is reported that he claims there were three cops at the time of the shooting.

As reported here.Exclusive: Witness claims he saw Michael Brown being shot | FOX2now.com

Previously posted images showing claimed distance to be in yards, and a measurement of the supposed distance.




I've bold text portion, which grabbed my attention immediately. Was easy to see it was far more than than 50 feet, and that fact the contractor clearly heard Brown yelling OK OK OK OK OK, from that distance. While other witnesses much closer to actual scene did not report Brown yelling anything to my knowledge.
 
How cute, but is doesn't work that way. You already stated what you stood by, your position, which is nothing but horse**** and was inappropriate to even post.
You don't get to change that.

The only "position" I stand behind where this thread is concerned is what I believe was your reason for posting the videos in your post #49. I don't believe it was to refute anything the witnesses from the OP said. Rather, I firmly believe you posted the videos for the sole purpose to say, "Look, Michael Brown was totally wrong!" And not once have I disagreed with your opinion on the matter. In fact, I've gone out of my way to say, "Maybe you're right!," since clearly there are other witnesses who give a different account from that given by those in the OP.

You came into the thread at page 5, quote me, and the first words you put down (post #48) were...

These witnesses did not say they were hands up in the air surrendering. And if the video is any indication of how the hands were up, that fits perfectly with the hearsay account of taunting the Officer, not up as in surrendering.

...as if I claimed that Michael Brown was surrendering w/his hands up at the time he was shot. I've n-e-v-e-r made such a claim and I don't think anyone else has either. However, I can totally understand why you'd be quick to point that out because when most people say that Michael Brown had his hands up it gives the impression that they believe he was surrendering. That has never been my position. If anything, I've taken the position that Michael Brown was defenseless at the time he was shot and that maybe Officer Wilson used excessive force. Maybe...

To that, all I've said is "Michael Brown had his hands up/raised at the time he was shot" which is factual. But I've also said it's highly likely Michael Brown was still in an aggravated/agitated state and, if so, IMO Officer Wilson had every right to be afraid for his life and shoot based on the fact that he had previously had an altercation with him in his police car and at least one shot was fired. Regardless of what either of us believes, it's going to be up to a jury to determine whether or not he was surrendering or if he was in an aggressive/agitated state taunting and/or pursuing Officer Wilson at the time he was shot. But all you had to do when you chimed in (post #48 and #49, respectively) was ask the simple question: "Was Michael Brown surrendering when he had his hands up or was he taunting the police?" and use the videos to state your case from there. You didn't. Instead, you went right into attack mode.

I'm not telling you how to post. I'm just saying before you call BS on another poster you should check your own.
 
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The only valid "eyewitness" accounts that matter are ones that match physical evidence. Once the posers are thrown out I'm guessing the accounts will start to line up.
 
It's easier to believe that people are EVIL and mean - not so stupid they kill their own selves as a result.

It's called denial. It's understandable though - everyone wants to believe that people are good all the time and never do anything dumb or thoughtless - like walk in front of a race car, angrily confronting that race car driver - while the race is going on at speeds over 150 mph. Only to get hit and killed.

You don't want to accept that someone was stupid enough to try to beat a cop to death and then was shot for it while he went to attack him again. It's called suicide by cop.

You don't want to accept it - but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. People can be violent, stupid, selfish ****s.
We already know that he had just robbed a carry out without even trying to hide his face from the cameras. That's not exactly rational behavior.

I wonder what the toxicology results are going to show.
 
I'm not telling you how to post. I'm just saying before you call BS on another poster you should check your own.
As you are the only one between us posting bs, I have no worries.
Especially as you are now trying to confuse the issue between your personal comments towards me (the claimed bs by you), and the actual topic.
That crap doesn't fly either.


The only "position" I stand behind where this thread is concerned is what I believe was your reason for posting the videos in your post #49. I don't believe it was to refute anything the witnesses from the OP said. Rather, I firmly believe you posted the videos for the sole purpose to say, "Look, Michael Brown was totally wrong!" And not once have I disagreed with your opinion on the matter. In fact, I've gone out of my way to say, "Maybe you're right!," since clearly there are other witnesses who give a different account from that given by those in the OP.
See all the stuff in green? All of it is irrelevant to the specific exchange about your personal comment, and is nothing more than deflection from your getting personal by posting racial horse****.
And yet you continue to deflect and "standby" your inappropriate racial horse**** assertion. Which is what it was.
As you were told, you are and were, wrong.
You can standby your being wrong all you want, it doesn't change the fact that you are still wrong.


You came into the thread at page 5, quote me, and the first words you put down (post #48) were...

...as if I claimed that Michael Brown was surrendering w/his hands up at the time he was shot. I've n-e-v-e-r made such a claim and I don't think anyone else has either.
:doh
Yes, I quoted you and provided additional information that was lacking.
Like the reported 50 feet was not 50 feet, but actually yards. Duh!
Like the worker reporting that there were three Officers on the scene at the time of the shooting, showing his account is skewed by what he later saw. Duh!
And I never said you made such a claim. Your failure to understand what has been provided and why it was provided, is not my problem.


However, I can totally understand why you'd be quick to point that out because when most people say that Michael Brown had his hands up it gives the impression that they believe he was surrendering. That has never been my position. If anything, I've taken the position that Michael Brown was defenseless at the time he was shot and that maybe Officer Wilson used excessive force. Maybe...

To that, all I've said is "Michael Brown had his hands up/raised at the time he was shot" which is factual. But I've also said it's highly likely Michael Brown was still in an aggravated/agitated state and, if so, IMO Officer Wilson had every right to be afraid for his life and shoot based on the fact that he had previously had an altercation with him in his police car and at least one shot was fired. Regardless of what either of us believes, it's going to be up to a jury to determine whether or not he was surrendering or if he was in an aggressive/agitated state taunting and/or pursuing Officer Wilson at the time he was shot. But all you had to do when you chimed in (post #48 and #49, respectively) was ask the simple question: "Was Michael Brown surrendering when he had his hands up or was he taunting the police?" and use the videos to state your case from there. You didn't. Instead, you went right into attack mode.
All this is nonsense and irrelevant. I did not go into attack mode, nor did I say you specifically said anything, so stop with your absurdities.

I provided additional information as you were already told. I even later pointed that out sarcastically.
And yet here you are trying to claim otherwise. :doh


all I've said is "Michael Brown had his hands up/raised at the time he was shot" which is factual.
:naughty
No. It was already pointed out to you in the following exchange that your assertion is not factual, as it is in contention.
it doesn't negate the fact that Michael Brown's arms were still raised at the time he was shot to death.
Wrong.
That is contested by other accounts.
Even the liars have changed their accounts to say they were going up at that time. Which means they were not up according to them.
And as I pointed out to Vance, I believe two separate points in time are being related.
Even VanceMack showed it is in contention using the witness he did.
Which you then quoted ...
He's bald up. He has his arms under his stomach and he was half-way down. And the officer lets off (fires) about 3 or 4 shots at him.
That is not having your hands up when he was shot.
 
We already know that he had just robbed a carry out without even trying to hide his face from the cameras. That's not exactly rational behavior.

I wonder what the toxicology results are going to show.

He had marijuana is in his system.
 
He had marijuana is in his system.

That wasn't the final results. They very well could have found more. Or they may not.

BTW, the grand jury was just extended another 60 days, into January 2015.

Apparently this will take quite a bit of time to reach a conclusion.
 
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