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Thread: New Michael Brown shooting witnesses describe scene

  1. #61
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    Re: New Michael Brown shooting witnesses describe scene

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Excon,

    I took time to listen to the eyewitness account from "Steve" in the 1st video in your post #49 and nothing he said changes what I previously posted, towit:

    ...or...

    From your post, witness "Steve" even said:

    Now, just as with the last witness in the CNN video, "Steve" didn't see Michael Brown with his hands up either, but he acknowledged what he heard from the crowd yelling, "He had his hands up".

    So, again, nothing you've presented changes anything I've stated above. However, you are right to question whether or not Michael Brown was being genuine, i.e., surrendering to authority, when he allegedly had his hands up OR if he was still being aggressive and "taunting" Officer Wilson as he approached daring him to shoot him. I will grant you that Michael Brown likely did not have his hands up because he was surrendering to police authority. Furthermore, I'll even grant you that Michael Brown was likely taunting Officer Wilson as he moved toward him. I've even said in other threads on this topic that it's very possible that Michael Brown did double-back onto Officer Wilson AND it's likely either Officer Wilson was caught off guard and didn't notice Michael approaching until the last moment OR the situation progressed so rapidly that it didn't deescalated, thus, allowing Officer Wilson the opportunity to consider using non-lethal force against his aggressor. Moreover, I can even see Officer Wilson reflectively going for his gun for the simple fact that he was attacked by Michael Brown mere moments beforehand. I've even questioned these last moments. So, don't mistake what I've presented as factual eyewitness accounts as defense of Michael Brown or guilt of Officer Wilson. I'm very willing to let the evidence speak for itself once presented before claiming guilt or innocence, murder or self-defense.



    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    As to the rest of your comments, I stand by my position as to why I believe you posted the additional material.
    Then you stand by horse**** and inappropriateness.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    Re: New Michael Brown shooting witnesses describe scene

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post



    Then you stand by horse**** and inappropriateness.
    Then I must be standing real close to you, my friend.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: New Michael Brown shooting witnesses describe scene

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Then I must be standing real close to you, my friend.
    Even though I probably am much closer to Ex then you on this topic... That was very funny.

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    Re: New Michael Brown shooting witnesses describe scene

    Quote Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
    ‘A dozen witnesses’ say Ferguson teen attacked cop before shooting | New York Post

    Multiple witnesses in riot-torn Ferguson, Mo., said that the unarmed black teen killed by a white cop attacked the officer in his patrol car before the teen was shot, according to a new report.

    “Police sources tell me more than a dozen witnesses have corroborated cop’s version of events in shooting,” St. Louis Post-Dispatch crime reporter Christine Byers tweeted, without elaborating.




    Darren Wilson is 100% innocent.
    You know she's just a bigot right?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: New Michael Brown shooting witnesses describe scene

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Then I must be standing real close to you, my friend.
    How cute, but is doesn't work that way. You already stated what you stood by, your position, which is nothing but horse**** and was inappropriate to even post.
    You don't get to change that.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    Re: New Michael Brown shooting witnesses describe scene

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    These witnesses did not say they were hands up in the air surrendering.
    And if the video is any indication of how the hands were up, that fits perfectly with the hearsay account of taunting the Officer, not up as in surrendering.

    The original account of this topic was published on the 7th.

    It is reported that the worker said the following.

    Then Brown moved, the worker said. “He’s kind of walking back toward the cop.” He said Brown’s hands were still up.

    Wilson began backing up as he fired, the worker said.

    After the third shot, Brown’s hands started going down, and he moved about 25 feet toward Wilson, who kept backing away and firing. The worker said he could not tell from where he watched — about 50 feet away — if Brown’s motion toward Wilson after the shots was “a stumble to the ground” or “OK, I’m going to get you, you’re already shooting me.”

    Workers who were witnesses provide new perspective on Michael Brown shooting : News


    Secondly, it is kind of obvious that many witnesses are just repeating what they heard from others.
    This account may be no different.

    It is reported that they were 50 feet away. And that simply isn't true. The workers notes indicate they were 40-50 yards away, not feet.
    And if one estimates the distance they are at in the video, they are about 75 yards from the scene. And if in the the ditch they were digging in, further.

    Then it is reported that he claims there were three cops at the time of the shooting.

    As reported here.Exclusive: Witness claims he saw Michael Brown being shot | FOX2now.com

    Previously posted images showing claimed distance to be in yards, and a measurement of the supposed distance.

    I've bold text portion, which grabbed my attention immediately. Was easy to see it was far more than than 50 feet, and that fact the contractor clearly heard Brown yelling OK OK OK OK OK, from that distance. While other witnesses much closer to actual scene did not report Brown yelling anything to my knowledge.

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    Re: New Michael Brown shooting witnesses describe scene

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    How cute, but is doesn't work that way. You already stated what you stood by, your position, which is nothing but horse**** and was inappropriate to even post.
    You don't get to change that.
    The only "position" I stand behind where this thread is concerned is what I believe was your reason for posting the videos in your post #49. I don't believe it was to refute anything the witnesses from the OP said. Rather, I firmly believe you posted the videos for the sole purpose to say, "Look, Michael Brown was totally wrong!" And not once have I disagreed with your opinion on the matter. In fact, I've gone out of my way to say, "Maybe you're right!," since clearly there are other witnesses who give a different account from that given by those in the OP.

    You came into the thread at page 5, quote me, and the first words you put down (post #48) were...

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    These witnesses did not say they were hands up in the air surrendering. And if the video is any indication of how the hands were up, that fits perfectly with the hearsay account of taunting the Officer, not up as in surrendering.
    ...as if I claimed that Michael Brown was surrendering w/his hands up at the time he was shot. I've n-e-v-e-r made such a claim and I don't think anyone else has either. However, I can totally understand why you'd be quick to point that out because when most people say that Michael Brown had his hands up it gives the impression that they believe he was surrendering. That has never been my position. If anything, I've taken the position that Michael Brown was defenseless at the time he was shot and that maybe Officer Wilson used excessive force. Maybe...

    To that, all I've said is "Michael Brown had his hands up/raised at the time he was shot" which is factual. But I've also said it's highly likely Michael Brown was still in an aggravated/agitated state and, if so, IMO Officer Wilson had every right to be afraid for his life and shoot based on the fact that he had previously had an altercation with him in his police car and at least one shot was fired. Regardless of what either of us believes, it's going to be up to a jury to determine whether or not he was surrendering or if he was in an aggressive/agitated state taunting and/or pursuing Officer Wilson at the time he was shot. But all you had to do when you chimed in (post #48 and #49, respectively) was ask the simple question: "Was Michael Brown surrendering when he had his hands up or was he taunting the police?" and use the videos to state your case from there. You didn't. Instead, you went right into attack mode.

    I'm not telling you how to post. I'm just saying before you call BS on another poster you should check your own.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 09-15-14 at 10:42 PM.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: New Michael Brown shooting witnesses describe scene

    The only valid "eyewitness" accounts that matter are ones that match physical evidence. Once the posers are thrown out I'm guessing the accounts will start to line up.

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    Re: New Michael Brown shooting witnesses describe scene

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    It's easier to believe that people are EVIL and mean - not so stupid they kill their own selves as a result.

    It's called denial. It's understandable though - everyone wants to believe that people are good all the time and never do anything dumb or thoughtless - like walk in front of a race car, angrily confronting that race car driver - while the race is going on at speeds over 150 mph. Only to get hit and killed.

    You don't want to accept that someone was stupid enough to try to beat a cop to death and then was shot for it while he went to attack him again. It's called suicide by cop.

    You don't want to accept it - but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. People can be violent, stupid, selfish ****s.
    We already know that he had just robbed a carry out without even trying to hide his face from the cameras. That's not exactly rational behavior.

    I wonder what the toxicology results are going to show.

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    Re: New Michael Brown shooting witnesses describe scene

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I'm not telling you how to post. I'm just saying before you call BS on another poster you should check your own.
    As you are the only one between us posting bs, I have no worries.
    Especially as you are now trying to confuse the issue between your personal comments towards me (the claimed bs by you), and the actual topic.
    That crap doesn't fly either.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    The only "position" I stand behind where this thread is concerned is what I believe was your reason for posting the videos in your post #49. I don't believe it was to refute anything the witnesses from the OP said. Rather, I firmly believe you posted the videos for the sole purpose to say, "Look, Michael Brown was totally wrong!" And not once have I disagreed with your opinion on the matter. In fact, I've gone out of my way to say, "Maybe you're right!," since clearly there are other witnesses who give a different account from that given by those in the OP.
    See all the stuff in green? All of it is irrelevant to the specific exchange about your personal comment, and is nothing more than deflection from your getting personal by posting racial horse****.
    And yet you continue to deflect and "standby" your inappropriate racial horse**** assertion. Which is what it was.
    As you were told, you are and were, wrong.
    You can standby your being wrong all you want, it doesn't change the fact that you are still wrong.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    You came into the thread at page 5, quote me, and the first words you put down (post #48) were...

    ...as if I claimed that Michael Brown was surrendering w/his hands up at the time he was shot. I've n-e-v-e-r made such a claim and I don't think anyone else has either.

    Yes, I quoted you and provided additional information that was lacking.
    Like the reported 50 feet was not 50 feet, but actually yards. Duh!
    Like the worker reporting that there were three Officers on the scene at the time of the shooting, showing his account is skewed by what he later saw. Duh!
    And I never said you made such a claim. Your failure to understand what has been provided and why it was provided, is not my problem.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    However, I can totally understand why you'd be quick to point that out because when most people say that Michael Brown had his hands up it gives the impression that they believe he was surrendering. That has never been my position. If anything, I've taken the position that Michael Brown was defenseless at the time he was shot and that maybe Officer Wilson used excessive force. Maybe...

    To that, all I've said is "Michael Brown had his hands up/raised at the time he was shot" which is factual. But I've also said it's highly likely Michael Brown was still in an aggravated/agitated state and, if so, IMO Officer Wilson had every right to be afraid for his life and shoot based on the fact that he had previously had an altercation with him in his police car and at least one shot was fired. Regardless of what either of us believes, it's going to be up to a jury to determine whether or not he was surrendering or if he was in an aggressive/agitated state taunting and/or pursuing Officer Wilson at the time he was shot. But all you had to do when you chimed in (post #48 and #49, respectively) was ask the simple question: "Was Michael Brown surrendering when he had his hands up or was he taunting the police?" and use the videos to state your case from there. You didn't. Instead, you went right into attack mode.
    All this is nonsense and irrelevant. I did not go into attack mode, nor did I say you specifically said anything, so stop with your absurdities.

    I provided additional information as you were already told. I even later pointed that out sarcastically.
    And yet here you are trying to claim otherwise.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    all I've said is "Michael Brown had his hands up/raised at the time he was shot" which is factual.

    No. It was already pointed out to you in the following exchange that your assertion is not factual, as it is in contention.
    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    it doesn't negate the fact that Michael Brown's arms were still raised at the time he was shot to death.
    Wrong.
    That is contested by other accounts.
    Even the liars have changed their accounts to say they were going up at that time. Which means they were not up according to them.
    And as I pointed out to Vance, I believe two separate points in time are being related.
    Even VanceMack showed it is in contention using the witness he did.
    Which you then quoted ...
    He's bald up. He has his arms under his stomach and he was half-way down. And the officer lets off (fires) about 3 or 4 shots at him.
    That is not having your hands up when he was shot.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
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