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Thread: New Michael Brown shooting witnesses describe scene

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    Re: New Michael Brown shooting witnesses describe scene

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    I believe we have two separate things being said by witnesses.

    1.) The lie from Dorian, PC and TM, that his hands were up surrendering.
    and
    2.) the hands up in a taunting gesture towards the Officer, not in actual surrender.

    #1 turns out to be lies. They have changed their accounts to say his hands were going up and it was just a little bit up at the very end. Which is not up surrendering as they previously said, and is drastically contrasted by what the worker shows and more in line with what Michael Brady states.


    While #2 occurred while taunting the Officer prior to the all the shots in the front when Brown was approaching the Officer.
    Unlike the jfk assassination there will be no ambiguity about Brown being shot from the front. I think that's huge, along with being punched in the face while inside the car. There will be alternative explanations also, such as that Wilson was trying to get Brown out of the car instead of pulling him in.

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    Re: New Michael Brown shooting witnesses describe scene

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    The witness at the end of the video said he was not turned away but was facing him and that he did not have his hands up but under his armpits. Point being...in the same news story there are two completely conflicting accounts.
    No, the stories given by the other witnesses in the video DO NOT contradict one another. Once again, the witness you're referring to, Michael Brady, provides an account of what he saw after he left his apartment vantage point and came down to street level to get a closer view of what was going on. Mr. Brady's words from the video (grammatically corrected):

    By the time I got outside, he's [Michal Brown] already turned around facing the officer. He's bald up. He has his arms under his stomach and he was half-way down. And the officer lets off (fires) about 3 or 4 shots at him.
    His account of what took place picks up after Michael Brown was already shot at least once. Nothing he says conflicts with the known facts:

    - Michael Brown was not fleeing at the time he was shot.

    - Michael Brown was facing the officer at the time he was shot.

    - Michael Brown was unarmed.

    - Michael Brown was shot multiple times.

    The reason you continue to harp on this one witness's account is obvious: He's the only one who doesn't state emphatically that Michael Brown did, in fact, have his arms up before being shot. But again, there's a reason he never claims having made such an observation: His observation of what took place was broken. The critical moment you cling to and discount occurred as Mr. Brady was leaving his apartment in his attempt to get down to street level to further witness what was going on.

    So, again, let's not gloss over the witnesses accounting or discount it just to frame your own idea of what happened and pass it off as truth.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: New Michael Brown shooting witnesses describe scene

    Excon,

    It's good that you're providing links to other witness accounts or videos or other articles that expand on the accounts already given by the same witnesses mentioned in the OP video. However, since this thread is clearly based on the CNN video, it was the only video I've commented on. I haven't neither seen nor read the material you've provided. I will in due time, but to throw such material into the discussion and act as if people are being bias against it when they (like myself) likely have never even reviewed it is wrong.

    What you, VanceMack and others seem to be trying to do is paint everyone else who disagrees with your perspective of this event as bias against the police officer. You even seem to get alittle more defensive when you know the person who doesn't share your exact viewpoint is a minority (Black). I can understand how you would think that every Black person who is commenting on this tragic even are on Michael Brown's side and not Officer Wilson's, but that just confirms to me that you're being just as bias as you clearly believe others to be. A clear example is how you go out of your way to make at distinction between Michael Brown having his arms raised because he was surrendering versus him having his arms up because he was taunting the police officer as he approached. Regardless of one's perspective or opinion as to why his arms were raised, it doesn't negate the fact that Michael Brown's arms were still raised at the time he was shot to death.

    Now, was Michael Brown may have been aggressive throughout the ordeal, but what most people are saying here is at the time he was shot it's very possible that Officer Wilson could have used non-lethal force to subdue him. But until it's clear whether or not there was a de-escalation of hostilities, it's unclear if Office Wilson had time to change gears to halt his alleged aggressor in the moments before Michael Brown's death.

    Regardless, I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'm more than willing to wait until all the evidence is heard before claiming guilty or innocent, murder or self-defense.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

  4. #54
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    Re: New Michael Brown shooting witnesses describe scene

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    What you, VanceMack and others seem to be trying to do is paint everyone else who disagrees with your perspective of this event as bias against the police officer. You even seem to get alittle more defensive when you know the person who doesn't share your exact viewpoint is a minority (Black).
    Let me very concise.
    Bs! You are wrong!
    Your interpretation skills of others actions apparently do not exist and are jaded by your own clearly biased views.
    I have no clue who is black, and although a think there have been two who have indicated they were, I do not recall who they are, nor do I care. So stop the racist bs.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    However, since this thread is clearly based on the CNN video, it was the only video I've commented on.
    Doesn't matter to pointing out information, and also irrelevant as you were commenting on other information as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    but to throw such material into the discussion and act as if people are being bias against it when they (like myself) likely have never even reviewed it is wrong.
    Wtf are you talking about?


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I can understand how you would think that every Black person who is commenting on this tragic even are on Michael Brown's side and not Officer Wilson's, but that just confirms to me that you're being just as bias as you clearly believe others to be.
    Holy ****! Again, wtf are you talking about? Nothing you said is true. So just an example of your own biased view.
    Secondly. Get a grip. This isn't about me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    A clear example is how you go out of your way to make at distinction between Michael Brown having his arms raised because he was surrendering versus him having his arms up because he was taunting the police officer as he approached.
    Holy crap! More nonsense from you.
    There is a difference between hands up in surrender, and hands up taunting. Especially when accompanied with words of taunt. Or do you not know that?
    And pointing that out does not show a bias.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    it doesn't negate the fact that Michael Brown's arms were still raised at the time he was shot to death.
    Wrong.
    That is contested by other accounts.
    Even the liars have changed their accounts to say they were going up at that time. Which means they were not up according to them.
    And as I pointed out to Vance, I believe two separate points in time are being related.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Now, was Michael Brown may have been aggressive throughout the ordeal, but what most people are saying here is at the time he was shot it's very possible that Officer Wilson could have used non-lethal force to subdue him.
    Doesn't matter. Brown attempting to take the Officers gun and injuring the Officer while doing so establishes him a lethal threat.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    But until it's clear whether or not there was a de-escalation of hostilities, it's unclear if Office Wilson had time to change gears to halt his alleged aggressor in the moments before Michael Brown's death.
    Oy Vey!
    Brown was approaching the Officer as the Officer fired at him.
    His approaching is not a de-escalation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Regardless, I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'm more than willing to wait until all the evidence is heard before claiming guilty or innocent, murder or self-defense.
    If you do not want to discuss what is known and what may possibly be, stop discussing. It is that simply.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
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    Re: New Michael Brown shooting witnesses describe scene

    Excon,

    It's not about you and yet you took the time to dissect my post piece-by-piece to make yourself seem relevant. Just as you call BS on me, I call BS on you as well.

    You've purposely gone out of your way to pull other material into this threat just to counter everything the witnesses said they observed in the OP. Granted, they have every right to change their views but if we're being honest the only reason you'd post the material in the first place is to counter each account given in support of your point of view on the matter which clearly leans more towards "Michael Brown was wrong every step of the way" not to expand on or correct witness accounts as previously given. In any case, maybe Michael Brown's actions were wrong every step of the way and I wouldn't dispute that if after trial all the evidence supports such a claim, but since we don't know what really happened...

    So, again, I say let's not gloss over the witnesses accounting or discount it just to frame your own idea of what happened and pass it off as truth.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: New Michael Brown shooting witnesses describe scene

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Excon,

    It's not about you and yet you took the time to dissect my post piece-by-piece to make yourself seem relevant. Just as you call BS on me, I call BS on you as well.

    You've purposely gone out of your way to pull other material into this threat just to counter everything the witnesses said they observed in the OP. Granted, they have every right to change their views but if we're being honest the only reason you'd post the material in the first place is to counter each account given in support of your point of view on the matter which clearly leans more towards "Michael Brown was wrong every step of the way" not to expand on or correct witness accounts as previously given. In any case, maybe Michael Brown's actions were wrong every step of the way and I wouldn't dispute that if after trial all the evidence supports such a claim, but since we don't know what really happened...

    So, again, I say let's not gloss over the witnesses accounting or discount it just to frame your own idea of what happened and pass it off as truth.
    More nonsense from you again.
    This nonsense is so typical.
    You don't like how it is going so you attack the poster and don't address the actual information.
    Like I said, get a grip.
    This isn't about me.
    So stop spewing the bs.
    And no, I didn't go out of my way to counter what they said, I provided additional information of what has been said.
    [sarcasm] My Gawd, the horrors. Excon provided more information so we can all be more informed and from more accurate opinions of what occurred. The horrors I tell you! [/sarcasm]
    All you are doing is whining because you do not like what was provided. Get over it and deal with the damn information.



    The evidence we know of, and have been informed of, doesn't say two things.
    Your inability to discern what that is, is not my problem.


    Either address the information or ignore the topic. It is that simple.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
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    Re: New Michael Brown shooting witnesses describe scene

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    If I had to choose between a third-party witness accounting of what he was told happened versus those who actually witnessed what took place on the scene, I'd take the eyewitnesses account bar none.

    Just saying...someone tells you what took place and you retell it to someone else, i.e, "he told me..." OR words straight from those who were there to see events unfold with their own eyes. You be the judge.
    That's not true at all. It was a conversation picked up on camera much like the two contractors, but without their faces shown. In fact No. 2 pretty much corroborates Wilson's account and seems to have seen the whole thing. This would certainly be one of the 12 witnesses the Police have who support what apparently happened in this case.

    "Then the next thing I know he doubled back toward him"

    #2 The police kept dumpin on him, and I’m thinking the police kept missing – he like – be like – but he kept coming toward him

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    Re: New Michael Brown shooting witnesses describe scene

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    No, the stories given by the other witnesses in the video DO NOT contradict one another. Once again, the witness you're referring to, Michael Brady, provides an account of what he saw after he left his apartment vantage point and came down to street level to get a closer view of what was going on. Mr. Brady's words from the video (grammatically corrected):



    His account of what took place picks up after Michael Brown was already shot at least once. Nothing he says conflicts with the known facts:

    - Michael Brown was not fleeing at the time he was shot.

    - Michael Brown was facing the officer at the time he was shot.

    - Michael Brown was unarmed.

    - Michael Brown was shot multiple times.

    The reason you continue to harp on this one witness's account is obvious: He's the only one who doesn't state emphatically that Michael Brown did, in fact, have his arms up before being shot. But again, there's a reason he never claims having made such an observation: His observation of what took place was broken. The critical moment you cling to and discount occurred as Mr. Brady was leaving his apartment in his attempt to get down to street level to further witness what was going on.

    So, again, let's not gloss over the witnesses accounting or discount it just to frame your own idea of what happened and pass it off as truth.
    If his hands were under his armpits then they werent over his head at the time the last shots were fired.

    There are numerous accounts, many of them contradictory, and that DOESNT include the reports eyewitnesses have given that reportedly given to LE that support the officers account. Rather than hear a few snippets and think you know what happened, maybe you should wait until you have all the facts.

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    Re: New Michael Brown shooting witnesses describe scene

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    maybe you should wait until you have all the facts.

    Now, that makes sense for everyone including the resident Barney Fife we have at DP.

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    Re: New Michael Brown shooting witnesses describe scene

    Excon,

    I took time to listen to the eyewitness account from "Steve" in the 1st video in your post #49 and nothing he said changes what I previously posted, towit:

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Post #38 - These two new witness statements confirm what other witnesses have already said, that:

    1) Michael Brown was running away from the police officer;

    2) Officer Wilson did shoot at Michael Brown as he was running away which would support how some witnesses wrongfully made the claim that Michael Brown was "shot in the back";

    3) Michael Brown did have his hand up.

    4) Michael Brown was shot multiple times, once in the head, several times in the body.

    5) Michael Brown died of multiple gun shot wounds.
    ...or...

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Post #52 - No, the stories given by the other witnesses in the video DO NOT contradict one another. Once again, the witness you're referring to, Michael Brady, provides an account of what he saw after he left his apartment vantage point and came down to street level to get a closer view of what was going on.

    ...


    His account of what took place picks up after Michael Brown was already shot at least once. Nothing he says conflicts with the known facts:

    - Michael Brown was not fleeing at the time he was shot.

    - Michael Brown was facing the officer at the time he was shot.

    - Michael Brown was unarmed.

    - Michael Brown was shot multiple times.
    From your post, witness "Steve" even said:

    He heard the first shots from his patio and went outside to see what was going on. That the police officer was shooting (at Michael Brown) from the rear and that Michael Brown turned around going back towards the office and that's when the officer unloaded on him. Michael Brown then fell to his knees.
    Now, just as with the last witness in the CNN video, "Steve" didn't see Michael Brown with his hands up either, but he acknowledged what he heard from the crowd yelling, "He had his hands up".

    So, again, nothing you've presented changes anything I've stated above. However, you are right to question whether or not Michael Brown was being genuine, i.e., surrendering to authority, when he allegedly had his hands up OR if he was still being aggressive and "taunting" Officer Wilson as he approached daring him to shoot him. I will grant you that Michael Brown likely did not have his hands up because he was surrendering to police authority. Furthermore, I'll even grant you that Michael Brown was likely taunting Officer Wilson as he moved toward him. I've even said in other threads on this topic that it's very possible that Michael Brown did double-back onto Officer Wilson AND it's likely either Officer Wilson was caught off guard and didn't notice Michael approaching until the last moment OR the situation progressed so rapidly that it didn't deescalated, thus, allowing Officer Wilson the opportunity to consider using non-lethal force against his aggressor. Moreover, I can even see Officer Wilson reflectively going for his gun for the simple fact that he was attacked by Michael Brown mere moments beforehand. I've even questioned these last moments. So, don't mistake what I've presented as factual eyewitness accounts as defense of Michael Brown or guilt of Officer Wilson. I'm very willing to let the evidence speak for itself once presented before claiming guilt or innocence, murder or self-defense.

    As to the rest of your comments, I stand by my position as to why I believe you posted the additional material.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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