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Thread: Obama: "ISIL Is Not Islamic"

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    Re: Obama: "ISIL Is Not Islamic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    If you claim to be Christian, but don't believe Jesus is God, are you really Christian?
    If you claim to be a follower of Judism, but you don't observe the sabbath, are you really a follower of Judism?
    If you claim to be Buddist, but you don't believe in karma or reincarnation, are you Buddist?

    I think that's what Obama was saying. If you claim to be a follower of Islam, but you kill innocent children, are you really a follower of Islam? Obama is saying that ISIL is not because they do not actually follow important Islamic teachings.
    Except this opens up the notion of saying it's legitimate for fundamentalists to declare that someone isn't Christian because they're pro-choice or because they're pro-gay marriage because their interpritation of what the religions tennents allow differ from the interpritation of those who they declare "false".

    Obama doens't believe them to be adhering to Islamic teaching. Those members of ISIS do believe their actions are justified under their religious views.

    To say that Obama is justified and accurate in declaring them something other than the religion they claim to be is to state that every fundamentality is justified in doing the same type of thing.

    ISIS claims to be Islamic. They seek to instill Islamic tennents in government. They identify as muslim. Obama has no standing to simply tell the American public "they're not Islamic". Yes. Yes they are. They may be a sect of Islam with beliefs and interpritations of their beliefs that you disagree with, but they are none the less Islamic.

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    Re: Obama: "ISIL Is Not Islamic"

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    Now you jump from a few thousand to a few hundred million.
    This is as blatant of a misstatement as one can make.

    You have just indicted a quarter of the Muslim population as supporting violence against children,
    with no evidence since you know that no evidence exists for such an outrageous claim .
    The number that is the most widely excepted is that 15-20% are radical. If you go off of that number, you tell me what 15-20% of 1.6 Billion is then. If you want to argue the 15-20% then we can do that, but if you accept it, then hundreds of millions is what we've got.

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    Re: Obama: "ISIL Is Not Islamic"

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    The people are poorly educated in these areas and easily swayed (brain washed) by superstitious beliefs and supercilious, morality based governing.
    Most terrorists have been quite well educated yet hat doesn't seem to have made a difference. And many who deflect from the dangers of ISL may be quite well educated also but, unfortunately, an education cannot always cure stupid.

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    Re: Obama: "ISIL Is Not Islamic"

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    ISIS is to Islam as Westboro is to Christianity.
    Absolutely, if you're speaking about their relation to the more common "moderate" sect of said religion within the world as opposed to directly comparing them (Westboro is disgusting...I'll take 1000 protests outside of funerals and ignorant claims of what god hates over one beheading for being an infidel of some sort)

    And it would be ridiculous to say that Westboro Baptist Church isn't Christian.

    It's a fundamentalist, skewed, hateful brand of Christian followers, but they're Christian. Acknowledging that doesn't speak negatively about Christianity or condemn all Christians, it simply recognizes the reality of what they consider themselves.

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    Re: Obama: "ISIL Is Not Islamic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    When the majority of them support violence against civilians, and you have a few hundred million of them that are willing to carry it out... Sort of a cause for alarm don't you think?
    The majority of posters in this thread support violence on civilians. What's your point?
    "The side that stays within its fortifications is beaten." ~Napoleon

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    Re: Obama: "ISIL Is Not Islamic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    I don't want to say that anything is inherently good or bad, I don't think that's true, but magical thinking, especially the kind of magical thinking held by the adamantly religious, doesn't lead to intelligent, rational, critical thinking, based on evidence and real-world goals. We see that with radical, evangelical Christians today, people who say to cut down all the forests, pollute the environment, destroy everything because Jesus is coming back anyhow, why not? These people are dangerous idiots.
    I'd like to see some support for these claims you're making.

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    Re: Obama: "ISIL Is Not Islamic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Absolutely, if you're speaking about their relation to the more common "moderate" sect of said religion within the world as opposed to directly comparing them (Westboro is disgusting...I'll take 1000 protests outside of funerals and ignorant claims of what god hates over one beheading for being an infidel of some sort)

    And it would be ridiculous to say that Westboro Baptist Church isn't Christian.

    It's a fundamentalist, skewed, hateful brand of Christian followers, but they're Christian. Acknowledging that doesn't speak negatively about Christianity or condemn all Christians, it simply recognizes the reality of what they consider themselves.
    These people tend to follow sections of the Old Testament but not the teachings of Jesus Christ.

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    Re: Obama: "ISIL Is Not Islamic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Unrepresented View Post
    The majority of posters in this thread support violence on civilians. What's your point?
    Which posters support violence on civilians?

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    Re: Obama: "ISIL Is Not Islamic"

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    And how many beheadings and acts of barbaric terrorism has Westboro "indirectly" incited ?
    Good point! But they did not participate, or film them for political gain.
    Some of their other tactics are almost as distasteful.

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    Re: Obama: "ISIL Is Not Islamic"

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Most terrorists have been quite well educated yet hat doesn't seem to have made a difference. And many who deflect from the dangers of ISL may be quite well educated also but, unfortunately, an education cannot always cure stupid.
    Many? I doubt that very seriously, maybe a handful of leaders and technicians. Education doesn't cure the type of stupid rampart in that part of the world, but enough people with some desire for prosperity and knowledge would help.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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