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Thread: Islamic State using leaked Snowden info to evade U.S. intelligence

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    Re: Islamic State using leaked Snowden info to evade U.S. intelligence

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    But the meta-data wasn't telling the NSA anything about anyone specifically. It merely focused on the keywords or phrases terrorist might use to carry forward with their attacks. For the most part, John and Jane Q Public were relatively safe unless they were suspected of doing something wrong. I'm sure there were some mistakes made here and there and that is regrettable, but if we are to catch the enemy our intelligence gathering sometimes may have to go where we dread.
    Any fool who intends to do dastardly stuff and doesn't communicate it digitally doesn't need to thank Snowden as much as they should thank knowing the absolutely obvious.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Re: Islamic State using leaked Snowden info to evade U.S. intelligence

    Snowden isn't hurting us, our elected officials are.

    Patriot Act, Military Commissions Act, NDAA amendment nullifying Habeas Corpus were ALL passed by our duly elected officials, NOT Edward Snowden.

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    Re: Islamic State using leaked Snowden info to evade U.S. intelligence

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Snowden isn't hurting us, our elected officials are.

    Patriot Act, Military Commissions Act, NDAA amendment nullifying Habeas Corpus were ALL passed by our duly elected officials, NOT Edward Snowden.
    I find it strange that there are people who appreciate being notified that an institution, vastly more powerful then themselves, is doing harm to them, and others who wish to kill the person sounding such alarm!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Islamic State using leaked Snowden info to evade U.S. intelligence

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    I found the analysis a bit contrived and naive.
    Okay.

    Since the first Gulf War it has been known phone calls overseas are listened to. Doesn't take a former secret squirrel to figure using phones isn't a life confirming, or life extending. No Sir the REAL deal terrorists have a few more active brain cells have thought through this.
    okay

    So who are these McJ fellas.... let's use tactics even REMFs know... the time honored diversion- the mis-direction, the frontal attack that distracts 'higher' so the flank attacks comes as a nasty surprise.

    As far as communications with real deal terrorists go there are dozens of ways to communicate without giving the e-tel guys as signal to listen to.
    That's a very interesting statement. Instantaneous communication across the globe in such a fashion? Do tell.

    But has any attack been thwarted due to McJ calling to work out the plan?
    Hm. I feel safe sticking to the public and well-made points that since the Snowden revelations started occuring, our collection against known VEO's has diminished.

    Did the Boston Bombers call McJ a dozen times to get bomb details?
    obviously it would not work against two brothers who decided to plot in a dorm room.

    You made an example that isn't real world but an attempt to justify a no-named source making claims about Snowden and his actions.
    No, I made an example in response to a question about how a metadata program could help actually forestall attacks.

    The sorry sad fact the Boston Bombers showed us is with all the meta data/eavesdropping/massive surveillance the human side does continue to err and makes the millions spent, the tapping our allies calls little more than a huge embarrassment and only serves to connect the dots AFTER a pair of kids blow up a few pressure cookers... did McJ call them with instructions on how to do that???
    Ah. And it is your theory that all future attacks will be in the form of the Boston Bombers, and that Islamist networks who have publicly declared their intent to strike in the United States will decide not to do so....... out of the goodness of their hearts?

    To think the terrorists have not learned about counter intel, and are not working on work arounds as diligently as they do new methods of bombing is more of a threat than missing the phone calls that most likely won't be reviewed until after the fact...
    again, no comment.

    Snowden isn't hurting us- our own incompetence is...
    The latter half of that statement is correct. The first half is ridiculously, patently untrue. Snowden has done more damage to national security than any other foreign asset in recent times.

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    Re: Islamic State using leaked Snowden info to evade U.S. intelligence

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Okay. okay That's a very interesting statement. Instantaneous communication across the globe in such a fashion? Do tell. Hm. I feel safe sticking to the public and well-made points that since the Snowden revelations started occuring, our collection against known VEO's has diminished. obviously it would not work against two brothers who decided to plot in a dorm room. No, I made an example in response to a question about how a metadata program could help actually forestall attacks. Ah. And it is your theory that all future attacks will be in the form of the Boston Bombers, and that Islamist networks who have publicly declared their intent to strike in the United States will decide not to do so....... out of the goodness of their hearts? again, no comment. The latter half of that statement is correct. The first half is ridiculously, patently untrue. Snowden has done more damage to national security than any other foreign asset in recent times.
    Okay, you give ZERO fact one the 'damage' done, the VEO count, any clue just what Snowden leaked that helped the terrorists an iota.

    Your Western thinking can't be projected on the terrorists- they have little need for instantaneous communication. They have years to plot, plan, move people into place, and strike when they want to- WE are the ones who desire instantaneous communication to REACT to a terrorist threat. binn Hidin survived a massive manhunt for years by going off the instantaneous grid and relying on simple hand delivered and sometimes verbal messages.

    It isn't my theory about future bombers- it is the HISTORY of bombers. From London to Boston there wasn't your McJ phone calls in a quantity to trigger an alert. Problem is a MASSIVE amount of data much be shifted through every day, More likely, as in the case of the Boston Bombers the data trail is noticed only AFTER the attack and the finger pointing of who should have connected some damn dots begins.

    NO ONE is claiming there is any goodness in a terrorist heart when it comes to the USofA so can that crap. However it is willful ignorance to think the measure/countermeasure battle isn't occurring with or without Snowden. Thinking the terrorists will not evolve without western help is ignorant. Thinking the terrorists will continue on the same old tactical path and not use the simplest of tactic, the feint.

    Dance it around all you like- your McJ phone calls are ludicrous. Again point to the incident stopped because the terrorists kept phoning home for instruction...

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    Re: Islamic State using leaked Snowden info to evade U.S. intelligence

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Okay, you give ZERO fact one the 'damage' done, the VEO count, any clue just what Snowden leaked that helped the terrorists an iota.
    I've posted this list a few times. Feel free to explain what American civil liberties were protected by these leaks:

    ...The classified portions of the U.S. intelligence budget, detailing how much we spend and where on efforts to spy on terror groups and foreign states, doesn’t deal with Americans’ privacy. This leak revealed the intelligence community’s self-assessment in 50 major areas of counterterrorism, and that “blank spots include questions about the security of Pakistan’s nuclear components when they are being transported, the capabilities of China’s next-generation fighter aircraft, and how Russia’s government leaders are likely to respond to ‘potentially destabilizing events in Moscow, such as large protests and terrorist attacks.’” The Pakistani, Chinese, and Russian intelligence agencies surely appreciate the status report.

    Our cyber-warfare capabilities and targets don’t deal with Americans’ privacy. The revelation that the U.S. launched 231 cyber-attacks against “top-priority targets, which former officials say includes adversaries such as Iran, Russia, China and North Korea and activities such as nuclear proliferation” in 2011 has nothing to do with Americans’ privacy.

    The extent and methods of our spying on China have nothing to do with Americans’ privacy.

    British surveillance of South African and Turkish diplomats has nothing to do with Americans’ privacy.

    The NSA’s successful interceptions of communications of Russian President Dimitri Medvedev has nothing to do with Americans’ privacy. This is not a scandal; it is literally the NSA’s job, and now the Russians have a better idea of what messages were intercepted and when.

    Revealing NSA intercepts and CIA stations in Latin America — again, nothing to do with U.S. citizens.

    Revealing a U.K. secret internet-monitoring station in the Middle East — nothing to do with U.S. citizens.

    The extent and range of NSA communications monitoring in India. . . .

    The fact that the United States has “ramped up its surveillance of Pakistan’s nuclear arms,” has “previously undisclosed concerns about biological and chemical sites there,” and details of “efforts to assess the loyalties of counterterrorism sources recruited by the CIA” . . .

    The U.S.’s spying on Al-Jazeera’s internal communication system. . . .

    What we know about al-Qaeda efforts to hack our drones. . . .

    The NSA’s ability to intercept the e-mail of al-Qaeda operative Hassan Ghul. . . .

    The NSA’s ability to read the e-mail of the Mexican president. . . .

    The U.S.’s electronic intercepts of communications to French consulates and embassies in New York and Washington. . . .

    The existence of NSA surveillance teams in 80 U.S. embassies around the globe . . .

    NSA’s spying on OPEC . . .

    NSA’s collecting data on the porn habits of Muslim extremist leaders in order to discredit them . . .
    We've additionally see the Taliban change the way in which they pass communications since Snowden revealed our abilities to collect on their methods, enabling them in combat operations against our troops in Afghanistan. And we've seen other VEO leadership change their TTP's as well.


    Your Western thinking can't be projected on the terrorists- they have little need for instantaneous communication. They have years to plot, plan, move people into place, and strike when they want to- WE are the ones who desire instantaneous communication to REACT to a terrorist threat. binn Hidin survived a massive manhunt for years by going off the instantaneous grid and relying on simple hand delivered and sometimes verbal messages.
    You are incorrect that they do not have need or use for instant communication. Very Senior Leadership has generally become more reliant on runners and cut-outs, certainly.

    It isn't my theory about future bombers- it is the HISTORY of bombers. From London to Boston there wasn't your McJ phone calls in a quantity to trigger an alert.
    that you or I know of. You are looking at a pretty small selection chosen specifically for the result you want. As for the london bombers

    Problem is a MASSIVE amount of data much be shifted through every day
    Sort of. It is a massive amount of data to be stored every day, to be queried later when it becomes relevant.

    More likely, as in the case of the Boston Bombers the data trail is noticed only AFTER the attack
    Possibly that as well. And then we can do things like rapidly run down associates before they can flee the country, or identify radicalizing, recruitment, and steering agents.

    NO ONE is claiming there is any goodness in a terrorist heart when it comes to the USofA so can that crap.
    Okedoke. Why do you think that major VEO's who have announced an intent to strike American soil would decide instead to leave that glory to lone wolves?

    However it is willful ignorance to think the measure/countermeasure battle isn't occurring with or without Snowden
    I don't think anyone has argued this. What we have pointed out is that Snowden seriously harmed our side, enabling the other.

    Dance it around all you like- your McJ phone calls are ludicrous
    Not really. Simplified in order to make the point, but hardly out of the realm of plausibility.

    Again point to the incident stopped because the terrorists kept phoning home for instruction...
    I'm not putting SIGINT on a open source debate forum. But yeah, Snowden severely impacted national security, both in the traditional

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    Re: Islamic State using leaked Snowden info to evade U.S. intelligence

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Okay, you give ZERO fact one the 'damage' done, the VEO count, any clue just what Snowden leaked that helped the terrorists an iota.

    Your Western thinking can't be projected on the terrorists- they have little need for instantaneous communication. They have years to plot, plan, move people into place, and strike when they want to- WE are the ones who desire instantaneous communication to REACT to a terrorist threat. binn Hidin survived a massive manhunt for years by going off the instantaneous grid and relying on simple hand delivered and sometimes verbal messages.

    It isn't my theory about future bombers- it is the HISTORY of bombers. From London to Boston there wasn't your McJ phone calls in a quantity to trigger an alert. Problem is a MASSIVE amount of data much be shifted through every day, More likely, as in the case of the Boston Bombers the data trail is noticed only AFTER the attack and the finger pointing of who should have connected some damn dots begins.

    NO ONE is claiming there is any goodness in a terrorist heart when it comes to the USofA so can that crap. However it is willful ignorance to think the measure/countermeasure battle isn't occurring with or without Snowden. Thinking the terrorists will not evolve without western help is ignorant. Thinking the terrorists will continue on the same old tactical path and not use the simplest of tactic, the feint.

    Dance it around all you like- your McJ phone calls are ludicrous. Again point to the incident stopped because the terrorists kept phoning home for instruction...
    Certainly, with regards to the domestic aspects of the NSA program, there were many elements found unconstitutional, and Jim Sensenbrenner found bi-partisan support for what he called comprehensive reforms to the agency. That many consider it stop gap, is a whole other story.

    H.R. 3361/ S. 1599
    Purpose: To rein in the dragnet collection of data by the National Security Agency (NSA) and other government agencies, increase transparency of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC), provide businesses the ability to release information regarding FISA requests, and create an independent constitutional advocate to argue cases before the FISC.

    End bulk collection of Americans’ communications records
    • The USA Freedom Act ends bulk collection under Section 215 of the Patriot Act.
    • The bill would strengthen the prohibition on "reverse targeting" of Americans—that is, targeting a foreigner with the goal of obtaining communications involving an American.
    • The bill requires the government to more aggressively filter and discard information about Americans accidentally collected through PRISM and related programs.

    Reform the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court
    • The USA Freedom Act creates an Office of the Special Advocate (OSA) tasked with promoting privacy interests before the FISA court’s closed proceedings. The OSA will have the authority to appeal decisions of the FISA court.
    • The bill creates new and more robust reporting requirements to ensure that Congress is aware of actions by the FISC and intelligence community as a whole.
    • The bill would grant the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board subpoena authority to investigate issues related to privacy and national security.

    Increase Transparency
    • The USA Freedom Act would end secret laws by requiring the Attorney General to publicly disclose all FISC decisions issued after July 10, 2003 that contain a significant construction or interpretation of law.
    • Under the bill, Internet and telecom companies would be allowed to publicly report an estimate of (1) the number of FISA orders and national security letters received, (2) the number of such orders and letters complied with, and (3) the number of users or accounts on whom information was demanded under the orders and letters.
    • The bill would require the government to make annual or semiannual public reports estimating the total number of individuals and U.S. persons that were subject to FISA orders authorizing electronic surveillance, pen/trap devices, and access to business records.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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