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Thread: Islamic State using leaked Snowden info to evade U.S. intelligence

  1. #21
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    Re: Islamic State using leaked Snowden info to evade U.S. intelligence

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    The metadata program kept track of the point-to-point records; what numbers had called whom. This is useful for scenarios such as the following.

    555-5555 suddenly starts calling a number tied to Abu McJihad in Pakistan. Abu McJihad is a member of the AQ cell for foreign operations, so this is serious. We quickly break out 555-5555's network. 555-5555 only regularly calls Abu McJihad, 666-6666, 777-7777, 888-8888, and 999-9999; so now you have your cell figured out. Unfortunately, the owner of 555-5555 only periodically turns on his phone, and we don't know who it is. The 8's, the 6's, and the 9's all only call each other and Mr 5, but good ole 777-7777 has apparently less personal devotion to OPSEC, and he calls a series of other numbers in a given geographic area. Notably, of the 5 other numbers Mr 7 calls, 1 of them is a pizza joint, 1 of them is a travel agency, and the other three are all members of a single family - the McKillTheInfedels, who live in Dearborne Michegan. Now we have a geographic area, and the family of at least one of the conspirators; likely by talking to them we can figure out who Mr 7 is, and by picking up and flipping Mr 7 we might be able to figure out Mr's 5-9. Additionally, Mr 8's phone pops up - he's active. He's currently co-located with 123-4567. In fact, once we pull up Mr 8's records, every time he makes a call, he is co-located with 123-4567. Fantastic, so both of these phones are probably owned by the same guy, and he uses one as his Operations phone, and the other as his Personal. Quickly we can break out 123-4567's network and find out A) where Mr 8 probably is and B) where he may run to try to hide if we start pursuing him. Now we have two solid leads on a cell in a scenario where time is critical.


    but unless we have the historical data.... we are just hoping that 555-5555 makes enough calls from the point at which he calls Mr McJihad for us to eventually put together the pieces, bit by bit, and hoping we do so in time.
    Greetings, cpwill.

    Thanks for taking the time to give an explanation! *hug* . I have read many posts of yours, and also many posts about you from people who know you, and I am impressed that they are impressed with your expertise! I'm glad to meet you!

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    Re: Islamic State using leaked Snowden info to evade U.S. intelligence

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    The metadata program kept track of the point-to-point records; what numbers had called whom. This is useful for scenarios such as the following.
    That's fine, and there is no doubt that what would be MOST useful to NSA and others is repeal of the 4th Amendment. And then they could collect any and all records that would help them to "fight terrorism" and all the rest of us have to do is trust the NSA and FBI et al to use all our private information for good purposes and never for bad, which seems like a fair tradeoff. We have no more right to privacy, and they get all they need to catch bad guys.

    And I see nothing at all problematic about secret courts issuing secret orders that massively expand the ability of the police state to delve into all aspects of our electronic communications. After all, if they get the metadata, who did 555-5555 call, how long, where were those callers located, surely it would make things easier if they just collected the content of all calls for possible later review! What could possibly go wrong?

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    Re: Islamic State using leaked Snowden info to evade U.S. intelligence

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Greetings, cpwill.

    Thanks for taking the time to give an explanation! *hug* . I have read many posts of yours, and also many posts about you from people who know you, and I am impressed that they are impressed with your expertise! I'm glad to meet you!
    Hey there Polgara! Snowden's disclosures, with regards to the domestic spying alone, produced an American conversation about something senator Church and the Church committee warned America about 40 years ago. That warning went without heed, and we ended up in the very undesirable situation that we were warned would require due diligence to avoid. It also produced BI-PARTISAN support for legislation to reign that agency in, and terminate its extra constitutional practices. Don't let anyone convince you that there was no good that came of it. Or that the obscurity of Meta data gathering was/is benign.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Islamic State using leaked Snowden info to evade U.S. intelligence

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Hey there Polgara! Snowden's disclosures, with regards to the domestic spying alone, produced an American conversation about something senator Church and the Church committee warned America about 40 years ago. That warning went without heed, and we ended up in the very undesirable situation that we were warned would require due diligence to avoid. It also produced BI-PARTISAN support for legislation to reign that agency in, and terminate its extra constitutional practices. Don't let anyone convince you that there was no good that came of it. Or that the obscurity of Meta data gathering was/is benign.
    Greetings, Montecresto.

    I know that many companies like Amazon.com keep track of what we purchase so they can target what we might be interested in buying in the future, and offer it, and that's okay, I guess. Why anyone in government would be interested in my conversations with my grandkids escapes me, though, unless it eliminates me as a potential problem. What a waste of time and money - since most of us would just like to live our lives in peace. Wouldn't it be far better to concentrate on the troublemakers and leave the rest of us alone? How we ever managed to become the world's leaders without having someone monitoring our every move is a mystery, isn't it? And if we do have a terrorist attack, as some are predicting, odds are overwhelming that it won't be an average citizen doing it. IMO, this is just 1984 coming true, and we know what that produced! Constant propaganda and no freedom except for those governing! :, and that is NOT benign!

  5. #25
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    Re: Islamic State using leaked Snowden info to evade U.S. intelligence

    Quote Originally Posted by a351 View Post
    Wow. Never thought I'd see that quote in a Snowden thread. What a breath of fresh air. But on a serious note, what essential liberty did Americans sacrifice in order to keep our foreign intelligence methodology under wraps?
    The liberty to not have that same methodology used on us.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  6. #26
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    Re: Islamic State using leaked Snowden info to evade U.S. intelligence

    Quote Originally Posted by a351 View Post
    Which is irrelevant to the stated effects on foreign intelligence gathering as a result of Snowden's heroics. It's the thread's topic you know.
    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I know there are some people who honestly believe Edward Snowden to be a defender of free speech and liberty, but I've long held the view that although it was important for the American public to know that their government was loosely spying on them, the methodologies used didn't need to be fully disclosed.
    My comments are as relevant or even more so that anything you've stated. The above statement is the first sentence in the thread. I disagree wholeheartedly with the bolded part. Citizens need to know when and how their government is spying on them.

    Don't know why you can't see the connection.
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    Generalizations are stupid.
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    The Second Amendment has nothing to do with guns.

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    Re: Islamic State using leaked Snowden info to evade U.S. intelligence

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Greetings, Montecresto.

    I know that many companies like Amazon.com keep track of what we purchase so they can target what we might be interested in buying in the future, and offer it, and that's okay, I guess. Why anyone in government would be interested in my conversations with my grandkids escapes me, though, unless it eliminates me as a potential problem. What a waste of time and money - since most of us would just like to live our lives in peace. Wouldn't it be far better to concentrate on the troublemakers and leave the rest of us alone? How we ever managed to become the world's leaders without having someone monitoring our every move is a mystery, isn't it? And if we do have a terrorist attack, as some are predicting, odds are overwhelming that it won't be an average citizen doing it. IMO, this is just 1984 coming true, and we know what that produced! Constant propaganda and no freedom except for those governing! :, and that is NOT benign!
    Amen Miss P!
    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Generalizations are stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Steel View Post
    The Second Amendment has nothing to do with guns.

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    Re: Islamic State using leaked Snowden info to evade U.S. intelligence

    Holy Cow! An unnamed former NSA employee has said Snowden has aided ISIS. Now THAT is really something to believe in.


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    Re: Islamic State using leaked Snowden info to evade U.S. intelligence

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Greetings, cpwill.

    Thanks for taking the time to give an explanation! *hug* . I have read many posts of yours, and also many posts about you from people who know you, and I am impressed that they are impressed with your expertise! I'm glad to meet you!
    .....um.... wow. Thank you. That makes my day.

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    Re: Islamic State using leaked Snowden info to evade U.S. intelligence

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    .....um.... wow. Thank you. That makes my day.
    I found the analysis a bit contrived and naive. Since the first Gulf War it has been known phone calls overseas are listened to. Doesn't take a former secret squirrel to figure using phones isn't a life confirming, or life extending. No Sir the REAL deal terrorists have a few more active brain cells have thought through this.

    So who are these McJ fellas.... let's use tactics even REMFs know... the time honored diversion- the mis-direction, the frontal attack that distracts 'higher' so the flank attacks comes as a nasty surprise.

    As far as communications with real deal terrorists go there are dozens of ways to communicate without giving the e-tel guys as signal to listen to.

    But has any attack been thwarted due to McJ calling to work out the plan? Did the Boston Bombers call McJ a dozen times to get bomb details?

    You made an example that isn't real world but an attempt to justify a no-named source making claims about Snowden and his actions.

    The sorry sad fact the Boston Bombers showed us is with all the meta data/eavesdropping/massive surveillance the human side does continue to err and makes the millions spent, the tapping our allies calls little more than a huge embarrassment and only serves to connect the dots AFTER a pair of kids blow up a few pressure cookers... did McJ call them with instructions on how to do that???

    To think the terrorists have not learned about counter intel, and are not working on work arounds as diligently as they do new methods of bombing is more of a threat than missing the phone calls that most likely won't be reviewed until after the fact...

    Snowden isn't hurting us- our own incompetence is...

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