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Thread: White House: Obama to Delay Immigration Action

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    Re: White House: Obama to Delay Immigration Action

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Not really, it isn't drawing a larger share of the fast growing population demographic, Hispanics (who are growing primarily from US births and at a rate that is going to increase). All it is doing is holding on to the old White vote....which is a declining share.
    Sure. Feel free to ignore the polling data.

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    Re: White House: Obama to Delay Immigration Action

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    OK, let's examine that.

    1) you have conceded the mid terms.
    Barring some major shift caused by unseen events, I would have to bet on the GOP keeping the House and gaining some seats in the Senate with the possibility of GOP Senate control no worse than 50/50 as of today.

    2) Obama's policy is so abhorant even he doesn't dare bring them forward until AFTER the mid terms.
    What exact policy are you referring to?

    3) The above conceded mid terms will mean a Republican majority.
    see my statement following item #1 above.

    4) the above noted majority will do what the majority of the country wants and blow away the last shred of Obama's ambitious agenda, leaving promises from gay marriage to the end of gitmo to "you can keep your plan..." a reminder of unfulfilled promises and a legacy of failure.
    Majority? Majority of what exactly? Do you mean a majority of the American people? Do you mean a majority of the small number that turn out in off year elections?

    Here in Michigan we had a situation in 2014 where 52% of Michigan voters voted for Democratic state house candidates but 53% of the candidates who won state house seats were Republicans due to serious gerrymandering thwarting the will of the majority.

    So be careful when you use the term MAJORITY and also be careful how you apply what it means for the nation.

    5) and the American voter is going to somehow become angered enough to punish the Republicans for preventing an unpopular and yet another bad Obamalaw from being passed?
    Due to two very obvious reasons:
    1 - the turn out in years like this is far different from presidential years and it gives the GOP an advantage. Yes - its the Dems own problem - but it is reality just the same.
    2 - Two years of Obama vetoes complete with righteous indignation on national TV every time he does it will take its toll on GOP painting them as radical and dangerous extremists only helping the Dems take it all back in 2016.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: White House: Obama to Delay Immigration Action

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    If I have enough honesty to listen to people like Hartmann, and even Malloy then I challenge you to listen to someone like Andrew Wilkow....

    Wilkow Majority



    Now that is funny Haymarket...When you want to be vile and spew how repubs should be 'bent over a table', it's all good, but when I come back and say, that it will actually backfire on you and will be you that gets to experience what Obama, and Reid have been doing for the past 6 years, all of the sudden you become a constitutional advocate, and scholar....Too funny!
    sorry - but never heard of Wilkow either. I have listed to Limbaugh on occassion and even O'Reilly.

    All I asked you was what exactly constituted the "precedents" you referred to and what would be the use of "unconstitutional power" that you referred to. And you have stayed away from any specifics. Why so?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: White House: Obama to Delay Immigration Action

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Barring some major shift caused by unseen events, I would have to bet on the GOP keeping the House and gaining some seats in the Senate with the possibility of GOP Senate control no worse than 50/50 as of today.



    What exact policy are you referring to?



    see my statement following item #1 above.



    Majority? Majority of what exactly? Do you mean a majority of the American people? Do you mean a majority of the small number that turn out in off year elections?

    Here in Michigan we had a situation in 2014 where 52% of Michigan voters voted for Democratic state house candidates but 53% of the candidates who won state house seats were Republicans due to serious gerrymandering thwarting the will of the majority.

    So be careful when you use the term MAJORITY and also be careful how you apply what it means for the nation.



    Due to two very obvious reasons:
    1 - the turn out in years like this is far different from presidential years and it gives the GOP an advantage. Yes - its the Dems own problem - but it is reality just the same.
    2 - Two years of Obama vetoes complete with righteous indignation on national TV every time he does it will take its toll on GOP painting them as radical and dangerous extremists only helping the Dems take it all back in 2016.


    Son, you don't know when you're beat.

    I doubt anyone is much interested in your pie in the sky revision of reality politics...

    But get this....

    The. Republican Party. Will. Win. A. Clear. Majority. In. BOTH. Houses. this November.

    Thank you for the temporary relief of the burden of reality, and now back to our regularly scheduled debate.
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
    Donald Trump, 11/23/17

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    Re: White House: Obama to Delay Immigration Action

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    what you originally argued remains unlikely to turn out. The GOP owning the Senate in 2014 is no more likely to hurt them in 2016 than Democrats taking the Senate in 2006 did in 2008.
    Oh but it will. Things have changed in the last decade and have changed making the GOP a far more radical, far more extremist group. They occupy the far right and I have little doubt that if they take both houses of Congress this fall - the more rabid faction will demand tons of raw red meat for them to chew on for two years and they will not be denied.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: White House: Obama to Delay Immigration Action

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    Son, you don't know when you're beat.

    I doubt anyone is much interested in your pie in the sky revision of reality politics...

    But get this....

    The. Republican Party. Will. Win. A. Clear. Majority. In. BOTH. Houses. this November.

    Thank you for the temporary relief of the burden of reality, and now back to our regularly scheduled debate.
    Did you not read my reply? I said the GOP will keep the house and barring some unforeseen events have at least a 50/50 chance of taking the Senate.

    And I see you said nothing to refute any of the points I made about what exactly is a majority.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: White House: Obama to Delay Immigration Action

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Why? Just what is it you think the GOP 'has' to do'? We bring in a million LEGAL immigrants a year. This latest spate of illegal immigration is a bi-product of the EXECUTIVE branch, not the legislative branch.

    When people like you say you demand the GOP act, all you really mean is it is the time for the GOP to do what YOU think they should do. Many Americans, including many democrats, do NOT want blanket amnesty and dont believe it is in any way shape or form the right thing to do. We have an ABUNDANCE of under skilled unemployed Americans that cant speak English, cant fill out a resume, and wouldnt have job skills to include in a resume if they COULD fill one out. Adding 20 million more to the labor force makes zero sense to ANYONE. IF the Executive branch acted on existing immigration law, the problem would be resolved. IF they targeted business that hire illegals, and IF they secured the border (acted on existing law) and IF they actually worked WITH the states and local law enforcement agencies that they themselves spent billions training to identify and remove illegal immigrants, especially those that commit crimes...this problem would work itself out in relatively short order. There is no reason to round people up en masse and send them home.

    Now...are there other things that should be addressed? Sure. Our economic relationship with mejico for starters. There should be passed some sort of path to citizenship for minors. There are things that could and should be done and BOTH PARTIES share blame.
    I never said that Congress should accept the current CIR...I said that the GOP base wants immigration action...what ever that is.

    From your response...you've proven you have let the Congress off the hook and moved on to another outrage.

    The immigration problem has been broken way before Obama. If you don't care if Congress fixes it...Then I don't. Remember it was the GOP base all up in arms over the 60K illegals that just came in. Rick Perry sent the Texas NG to the border as a stop-gap.

    The 2008 law still stands. Obama can't change the law, Congress has to.

    You don't want any kind of immigration reform...you want to blame Obama for not issuing an EO on immigration. You are not going to hold Congress to any action.
    Last edited by 1750Texan; 09-07-14 at 02:43 PM.


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    Re: White House: Obama to Delay Immigration Action

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    sorry - but never heard of Wilkow either. I have listed to Limbaugh on occassion and even O'Reilly.
    Limbaugh and O'Reilly eh? NO WONDER you have such a skewed view of conservatives....Give Wilkow a listen....Smart guy.

    All I asked you was what exactly constituted the "precedents" you referred to and what would be the use of "unconstitutional power" that you referred to. And you have stayed away from any specifics. Why so?
    Here are some specifics for you...Rebut these if you can.

    25 Violations of Law
    By President Obama and His Administration

    Obama Administration uses IRS to target conservative, Christian and pro-Israel organizations, donors, and citizens.
    In an unprecedented attack on the First Amendment, the Obama Justice Department ordered criminal investigations of FOX News reporters for doing their jobs during the 2012 election year.

    President Obama, throughout his Presidency, has refused to enforce long-established U.S. immigration laws. For example . . .


    More than 300,000 captured illegal aliens had been processed and were awaiting deportation. But, incredibly, Obama stopped these deportations and ordered the U.S. border patrol to release many of these illegal aliens in violation of law and without explanation.

    Congress rejected Obama's so called DREAM ACT – which would have granted permanent residency to many illegal aliens. So Obama enacted his own version of the DREAM ACT by Executive Order, thus directly defying Congress. According to Obama's Executive Order, illegal aliens can stay in America if they are under the age of 30, have been in America for at least five years, are enrolled in school or have graduated from high school, and have committed no felonies.

    Obama has refused to build a double-barrier security fence along the U.S.-Mexican border in direct violation of the 2006 Secure Fence Act. This law requires that "at least two layers of reinforced fencing" be built along America's 650-mile border with Mexico. So far, just 40 miles of this fence have been built – most of it during the Bush Administration.

    Obama's unconstitutional assault on your Second Amendment Right to Keep and Bear Arms.
    President Obama issued, in one day, 21 separate Executive Orders that attack and undermine your Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms.

    Especially egregious is President Obama's Executive Orders amending the ObamaCare law to allow doctors and hospitals to investigate which patients own a gun. This outrageous Executive Order could allow the federal government to track and monitor law-abiding gun owners simply because they sought medical care.

    Obama's assault on Christians and religious freedom.

    Obama's Health and Human Services Department has, on its own (without Congressional approval), issued a mandate that all health insurance plans must include coverage for abortion-inducing drugs. As a result, pro-life employers and taxpayers are now effectively required by law to pay for abortions.

    This mandate is an unconstitutional attack on the protections for freedom of religion and freedom of conscience in the First Amendment and the 1993 Religious Freedom Restoration Act. This mandate also directly violates the ObamaCare law enacted by Congress, which prohibits any and all taxpayer funds from being used to pay for abortions.

    Obama forced ObamaCare on an unwilling public through bribery and lying about its cost.
    Obama managed to secure passage of ObamaCare by one vote in the Senate by bribing senators. He bribed Senator Ben Nelson of Nebraska with the notorious "Cornhusker Kickback." He bribed Senator Mary Landrieu with the infamous $300 million "Louisiana Purchase."

    In addition, Obama knowingly and blatantly lied to America and to Congress about how much ObamaCare would really cost. The cost of ObamaCare to the American people over the next 10 years will not be less than $1 TRILLION, as Obama promised in his nationally televised speech to the nation. Instead, the real cost of ObamaCare to the Federal Treasury is $2.4 TRILLION, according to the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office.

    But the true cost of ObamaCare is more like $10 TRILLION when you factor in the cost to the states, the cost to individual Americans who are now required to purchase Obama-approved health plans (the "Individual Mandate"), the cost of exploding health insurance premiums, the $716 billion ObamaCare steals from Medicare, and the increased cost to businesses of complying with ObamaCare mandates.

    Operation Fast & Furious.

    "Operation Fast & Furious" was the Obama Administration's gun-running scheme that put thousands of American-made semi-automatic weapons in the hands of Mexican drug cartels and resulted in the death of at least one U.S. Border Patrol Agent, Brian Terry. Obama's Attorney General Eric Holder lied to Congress and the public, claiming he didn't know about his Justice Department's Fast & Furious operation.

    Congress has now held Holder in contempt for defying congressional subpoenas and refusing to turn over thousands of Justice Department documents on Fast & Furious. President Obama asserted Executive Privilege to try to protect Holder. But for Executive Privilege to apply, Obama would have had to have known about Fast & Furious, making the President as culpable as Holder.

    Investigators suspect that Fast & Furious was an effort by the Obama Administration to discredit lawful gun ownership in America by purposefully creating gun crimes, thus inducing public outcry for gun control. When it put thousands of semi-automatic weapons in the hands of Mexican drug cartels, the Obama Justice Department knew these guns would be used to commit crimes, perhaps even kill some Americans. Then Obama could say: "See how dangerous these guns are. We must ban them."

    "Federal Communications Commission (FCC): Regulated the Internet despite a court order from the Circuit Court of Appeals for Washington, D.C. stating that the FCC does not have the power to regulate the Internet." (SOURCE: Report from Nine State Attorneys General)

    "Environmental Protection Agency (EPA): Imposed Cross-State Air Pollution Rules on the state of Texas at the last minute and without an opportunity for Texas to respond to the proposed regulation. EPA overreach was based on a dubious claim that air pollution from Texas affected a single air-quality monitor in Granite City, Illinois more than 500 miles and three states away from Texas." (SOURCE: Report from Nine State Attorneys General)

    "Department of Justice (DOJ): Rejected state voter ID statutes that are similar to those already approved by the Supreme Court of the United States. DOJ ignored section 8 of the Voting Rights Act which calls for protections against voter fraud, and used section 5 to administratively block measures to protect the integrity of elections passed by state legislatures." (SOURCE: Report from Nine State Attorneys General)

    Continued...
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: White House: Obama to Delay Immigration Action

    Continued...

    "DOJ: In violation of 10th Amendment, sued to prevent Arizona from using reasonable measures to discourage illegal immigration within its borders. Arizona has a large number of illegal immigrants, compared to other states, and needs to be able to act to reduce the number." (SOURCE: Report from Nine State Attorneys General)


    "DOJ: Went to court to stop enforcement of Alabama's immigration reform laws, which require collection of the immigration status of public school students, require businesses to use E-Verify, and prohibit illegal immigrants from receiving public benefits." (SOURCE: Report from Nine State Attorneys General)


    "White House: Made "recess appointments" to the National Labor Relations Board and Consumer Financial Protection Bureau when Congress was NOT in recess. The Obama Administration has ignored the ruling by the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals that the appointments are unconstitutional." (SOURCE: Report from Nine State Attorneys General)


    "Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC): Interfered with a Michigan church's selection of its own ministers by trying to force the church to reinstate a minister who was discharged for her disagreement with the religious doctrine of the church." (SOURCE: Report from Nine State Attorneys General)


    "Department of Energy (DOE): In 2009, the Obama Administration arbitrarily broke federal law, violated various contracts, and derailed the most studied energy project in American history at Yucca Mountain by denying it a license, thus costing the American people more than $31 billion." (SOURCE: Report from Nine State Attorneys General)


    Department of the Interior (DOI): Forced Glendale, a family-oriented town in Arizona, to become another Las Vegas against its will by granting "reservation status" to a 54-acre plot in the town, where the Tohono O'odham Indian Nation plans to build a resort and casino." (SOURCE: Report from Nine State Attorneys General)


    Without Congressional approval, Obama gutted the work requirement for welfare recipients passed by Congress and signed into law by President Bill Clinton.


    In the bailout of General Motors and Chrysler, Obama illegally shortchanged bond holders in favor of Labor Unions, despite U.S. bankruptcy laws that specify that bond holders be first in line to be paid back.


    Eager to use the killing of Osama bin Laden for political gain, Obama exposed the identity and method of operation of the Navy SEALs team that conducted the operation in Pakistan, thus exposing its members to a lifetime of risk because they have been targeted for assassination by Islamists. A short time after Obama exposed the Navy SEALs' method of operation, 22 SEALs were shot down and killed in Afghanistan. It is a violation of law for the President or any American to reveal classified military secrets.


    President Obama established an extra-constitutional top secret "kill list" of people (including Americans) who can be summarily killed on sight presumably by drones -- without due process. Once on Obama's kill list, an American citizen can be targeted and executed on the opinion of a single government bureaucrat. That's not how our legal system is supposed to work.


    Obama Administration officials twisted the arms of defense contractors to not issue layoff notices in October of 2012 so as to avoid causing bad news for Obama right before the election even though federal law (the "WARN Act") requires such notices. ; Not only is this a violation of the WARN Act, it's also an unlawful use of federal officials for campaign purposes.


    President Obama intervened militarily in Libya in 2011 without the Congressional approval required by the War Powers Act.


    Obama knowingly lied to Congress and the American people about the killing of U.S. Ambassador Chris Stevens and three other Americans in Benghazi, Libya. The President and his representatives repeatedly said an anti-Islamic video sparked a spontaneous uprising in Libya that resulted in the killings even though Obama knew that the attack was a well-planned military-style assault by al Qaeda on the anniversary of September 11.


    Michelle Obama's family trip to Africa in June of 2011, including a private safari at a South African game reserve, cost American taxpayers $424,000 for air travel alone. Mrs. Obama brought along both her makeup artist and hairstylist, as well as her mother, a niece and nephew, and her daughters, who were listed as "senior staff members."


    https://www.committeeforjustice.org/...administration
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: White House: Obama to Delay Immigration Action

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Limbaugh and O'Reilly eh? NO WONDER you have such a skewed view of conservatives....Give Wilkow a listen....Smart guy.



    Here are some specifics for you...Rebut these if you can....
    Why would I care about rebutting your list? All I asked you was IF you claim that Obama used unconstitutional powers why would you then threaten that people like me will scream for mercy when unconstitutional powers were to be used on them when the GOP takes over?

    That is what I want you to expound upon. Can you supply some specifics to what actions the GOP would take that would be unconstitutional powers that would have me screaming for mercy as you predicted? And why would they take these steps if they are unconstitutional?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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