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Thread: Jobs Report: U.S. Economy Added Just 142,000 Jobs In August, Unemployment Down To 6.1

  1. #91
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    Re: Jobs Report: U.S. Economy Added Just 142,000 Jobs In August, Unemployment Down To

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    I agree that we have some crazy policies. No argument here.

    Income has continued to pool in the hands of the wealthy, while the general population gains nothing from the increases in per work hour productivity which technology continues to create. this has been happening since the mid 1970s, and Obama has failed to correct it.

    Historically speaking income has ALWAYS pooled in the hands of the wealthy.

    Its never been a serious issue in this Country until modern day Democrats started exploiting the fact that Rich people are Rich.

    They needed a huge distraction for the 2014 elections so they pushed this narrative based on division and envy.

    Worse, they're promising people that they can fix the problem.

    Clinton's tech bubbles produced allot of new Millionaires and he even lowered Capital Gains taxes too boot.

    I dont remember this 1 percent narrative being bandied about back then.

    The rich may be getting richer but who cares ? You can thank policies like perpetual QE ( put in place because Obama's " recovery " wasn't a real recovery ) and progressive tax policies that target and penalize wealth for the widening divide.

    It wouldn't be noticed if the proverbial chair hadn't been pulled out from beneath the Middle-class by a President and Political party that seeks " social and economic justice " instead of creating a business friendly environment .

    Its not the policies that make the ruch richer that are the issue, it's the policies that make the Middle-class disappear that are the problem.

    Take Obama Care for example. It doesn't affect the rich who can afford their policies or the poor who qualify for medicare. It exclusively targets the Middle-classes discretionary income via rising premiums for overpriced policies.

  2. #92
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    Re: Jobs Report: U.S. Economy Added Just 142,000 Jobs In August, Unemployment Down To

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    Wait, I am very confused here.
    Whenever I mention the ill-state of the US economy, I get angry replies telling me the economy under Obama is better than ever and, well, he's fixed all that and anyway we are saved through Obamacare.
    I am not a whiz at economics, but it strikes me that in a consumer society you need consumers to keep the whole thing going. If people don't have jobs, how do they have money to consume those Chinese made products?
    Can someone explain to me how Obama has single handedly overcome a fundamental economic rule?
    This latest report IS disappointing, but looking at Single Month reports is Never a good idea.

    The QEs have worked too. After the also-Necessary Financial Bailout preventing another 1929, the QEs prevented another 1930s.
    The policies were Correct.
    They have Worked.

    The numbers are especially disappointing though, as everyone was hoping the economic growth would increase/catch hold without the Fed.
    But if September's (and later) numbers come in similarly, they have Problem.
    That problem is the stopping and even reversing, without having the economy having caught hold.
    Not just the USA, the world as structural Growth problems which any given country cannot overcome alone.

    BUT... the QEs didn't and can't solve the larger Structural Problems.
    1. Globalization Devouring our Blue Collar Jobs and lowering wages of even those that stayed.
    2. Our Horrible immigration policy/Free-for-all which has Caused even more erosion in wages/a Double Whammy to the Blue Collar/Middle Class.
    3. The Demographic Structural problem of 10,000 Boomers retiring every day.
    Collecting SS and slamming Medicare.
    This promises to get WORSE/cumulative every year for at least the next 15, perhaps 20.
    So You can pin a part of the ''participation rate'' on Obama, but probably not even Half.
    Participation IS going to erode.

    4. That's why, though I am for Balanced Budgets, it's Not crazy to Run a Deficit while the Demographic Pig works it way through the Python.
    But No, that didn't mean from 2000-2015 except for the necessary post-Crash Bail-out.

    5. Japan is Finished IMO.
    It is a large Black Swan that could trigger another Huge sell-off in World markets.
    It's much Worse than Greece was fiscally.

    6. China has been desperately pumping up theei economy with about 3-4x the rate of our QEs. Of course, they're doing it with our money.
    But their economy is a phantom and their numbers (ie, 7% growth) are complete BS

    7. Europe/EU/Draghi is increasing it's QE because they are dead in the water.

    8. Canada is in relatively great shape due to Fiscal responsibility and of course, it's a Resource/Oil/etc economy in a Resource hungry world.
    Good luck with Natl Health care there without... Oil, Metals, Ag, Timber.
    I'm personally sick of not being able to dunk a basketball because of racism.
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    Re: Jobs Report: U.S. Economy Added Just 142,000 Jobs In August, Unemployment Down To

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Historically speaking income has ALWAYS pooled in the hands of the wealthy.

    Its never been a serious issue in this Country until modern day Democrats started exploiting the fact that Rich people are Rich.

    They needed a huge distraction for the 2014 elections so they pushed this narrative based on division and envy.

    Worse, they're promising people that they can fix the problem.

    Clinton's tech bubbles produced allot of new Millionaires and he even lowered Capital Gains taxes too boot.

    I dont remember this 1 percent narrative being bandied about back then.

    The rich may be getting richer but who cares ? You can thank policies like perpetual QE ( put in place because Obama's " recovery " wasn't a real recovery ) and progressive tax policies that target and penalize wealth for the widening divide.

    It wouldn't be noticed if the proverbial chair hadn't been pulled out from beneath the Middle-class by a President and Political party that seeks " social and economic justice " instead of creating a business friendly environment .

    Its not the policies that make the ruch richer that are the issue, it's the policies that make the Middle-class disappear that are the problem.

    Take Obama Care for example. It doesn't affect the rich who can afford their policies or the poor who qualify for medicare. It exclusively targets the Middle-classes discretionary income via rising premiums for overpriced policies.
    Sure, income has always pooled, and that's one of the drawbacks to a free capitalistic economy.

    I actually want the rich to become richer, and I want the non-rich to become richer also. But what happens under capitalism is that money tends to pool in the hands of the rich at a rate so fast that incomes for the masses never rise, even when our society becomes more productive. During the mid 20th century we successfully preventing this from happening by having a high amount of unionization and a very progressive tax rate. We now have much less unionization and a much less progressive tax rate, and nearly 40 years now, all of the economic fruits of our increases in productivity have gone to the rich. Those in the middle have only been able to keep their standard of living up by going far deeper into debt than our parents did, and from being able to enjoy some of the non-economic benefits of new technology (mostly convenience of things like cell phones and having lots more channels to watch on tv).

    Seems to me that the best way to return to the scenario where our newly created economic wealth is shared by all is to return to the tax and wage policies that we had prior to the mid 1970's.
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    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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    Re: Jobs Report: U.S. Economy Added Just 142,000 Jobs In August, Unemployment Down To

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    lol my arguments are true because that is how businesses operate. yep they are cash rich. they are holding about 1.5 trillion dollars.
    you missed the part where the ROR on expanding is not worth it. It isn't worth it because the government has made it to expensive to expand.
    Bullchit, the reason for not expanding currently is due to LOWER THAN NORMAL DEMAND WHILE PROFITS REMAIN HIGH BECAUSE WAGES ARE STAGNATE.

    some states are expanding at a rapid rate because they are giving the companies reasons to come into their states mostly through huge tax breaks.
    why? because they realize the short term tax breaks = long term jobs which means more taxes.
    Currently, the states that are "expanding" are primarily states that have large amounts of petroleum products, ie oil and gas.

    economic situation isn't normal because the government has regulated it into that stituation.
    Again, a complete denial of the economic "stituation" the US and the EU have been in since 2007.



    Until you government people come to grips with the fact that it is the economy and businesses that generate taxes
    Consumers are the primary revenue generators, it is DEMAND that drives an economy, without DEMAND you cannot sell anything your business produces.

    and adopt pro-business regulations and pro-business and pro-success tax structures the economy will continue in this stagnant grip that it has been in since obama took office.
    Continuing misunderstanding of the macroeconomic conditions since 2007

    he has maintained an weak 2% GDP since he took office. sorry but government doesn't create jobs like obama thinks. it is people, businesses and investment that drives jobs.
    something that obama stands against.
    Ignorant moronic commentary, EVERY legitimate economist has recognized the lowered levels of demand during the the 2008 Great Recession (the worst since 1929) has continued through the recovery and is due to debt overhang, real lowered wages and household wealth declines. The ONLY way you can make-up for the lack of consumer spending is by having govt spending increase. You want a poor recovery, then cut govt spending during a time of lowered consumer spending.
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    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
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    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Jobs Report: U.S. Economy Added Just 142,000 Jobs In August, Unemployment Down To

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Historically speaking income has ALWAYS pooled in the hands of the wealthy.
    Yup. that's what happens under capitalism.

    Its never been a serious issue in this Country until modern day Democrats started exploiting the fact that Rich people are Rich.
    It's always been a serious issue in this country, regardless of if anyone was making a political issue of it.

    But during the middle of the 20th century, when our economic growth was best, all income classes grew in income at about the same rate. So during those years, the issue was resolved. Our pie was growing and everyone was benefiting from it. Around the middle of the 1970s, for whatever reason, virtually all of the fruits of our increasing productivity started going to the rich, and while our pie was still growing, the only slice that increased in size was the slice that the rich enjoyed.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  6. #96
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    Re: Jobs Report: U.S. Economy Added Just 142,000 Jobs In August, Unemployment Down To

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    ... the reason for not expanding currently is due to LOWER THAN NORMAL DEMAND WHILE PROFITS REMAIN HIGH BECAUSE WAGES ARE STAGNATE...
    And it's a self perpetuating cycle. As long as wages are stagnate, demand will remain low, and as demand is low, we will have a high unemployment rate which only adds to our lack of demand.

    It's a cycle that can only be broken by government action (even if that action is repealing laws or reducing government or or lowering middle class taxation).
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  7. #97
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    Re: Jobs Report: U.S. Economy Added Just 142,000 Jobs In August, Unemployment Down To

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Bullchit, the reason for not expanding currently is due to LOWER THAN NORMAL DEMAND WHILE PROFITS REMAIN HIGH BECAUSE WAGES ARE STAGNATE.
    this is the left wrong logic at it's again. wages are based on market value and supply vs demand. there are more people looking for work than jobs which means pay goes down. if you notice pre-recession wages were through the roof due to worker demand from companies.

    Wages are stagnate due to government continiously messing with the economy and the system instead of actually keeping it's nose out of the way.
    the more expensive you make it for businesses to operate it means less money for wages and raises.

    Currently, the states that are "expanding" are primarily states that have large amounts of petroleum products, ie oil and gas.

    Again, a complete denial of the economic "stituation" the US and the EU have been in since 2007.
    actually that is false as well. while some states are expanding in mining in general other states are going strong in argiculture etc.
    10 states with the fastest growing economies

    however if you read the article i will go ahead and point out one major detail that they mention.

    One common trait among a number of the fastest growing states, however, was a resilient government sector. According to Woodruff, "government was the largest detractor if you will from growth in most states." While the government sector directly pulled down GDP nationwide, and served as a drag on output in all but 11 states, this was not the case in the fastest growing states. In fact, six of the top 10 growing states did not experience a drop in output from the government sector.

    wait what you said wasn't happening IS HAPPENING. Governments are draining their state GDP's.
    so a complete denial that government impedes not only the economy but jobs as well hmmm sounds familar since i just said and you said that wasn't the case.


    Consumers are the primary revenue generators, it is DEMAND that drives an economy, without DEMAND you cannot sell anything your business produces.

    Continuing misunderstanding of the macroeconomic conditions since 2007
    wrong economic growth generates taxes you can't stifle and penalize growth like this government has done since 2008 and expect a full strong economy.
    obama has presided over one of worst economic recoveries ever and the only thing he can do is laugh that his so called shovel ready jobs weren't ready.

    solid GDP growth in a healthy economy is 3-5%. obama 1-2% if he was lucky. after recession GDP growth should be 7-10%. obama barely managed 3%.
    continuing to not understand economics since they were invented.

    the lack of demand is mostly due to government more so obama and the so called liberal party looking out for the working guy.

    people have less money in their paychecks, prices on items have gone up due to regulations and other businesses expenses.
    money that would be normally spent on merchandise is going toward healthcare.

    Ignorant moronic commentary, EVERY legitimate economist has recognized the lowered levels of demand during the the 2008 Great Recession (the worst since 1929) has continued through the recovery and is due to debt overhang, real lowered wages and household wealth declines. The ONLY way you can make-up for the lack of consumer spending is by having govt spending increase. You want a poor recovery, then cut govt spending during a time of lowered consumer spending.
    the so called recession has been over for 2+ years that is no longer an excuse to you so the only moronic commentary is yours.
    the recovery we should have seen a huge increase in GDP growth on the order of 7-10%. that failed to materialize because the left wrong kept passing regulation after regulation after regulation.

    your beloved obamacare cost companies 31b dollars in 3 years for compliance.
    Three Years of Obamacare: $31 Billion in Regulation Costs, 71.5 Million Hours in Compliance | National Review Online

    that is 31b dollars that could have been spent on expansion or raises or jobs or other economic growth. instead it went to the government.
    since obama has been president he has passed another 70b dollars in regulations costs.

    you want to complain about wages etc there they are right there. your pay increase went to the government.

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    Re: Jobs Report: U.S. Economy Added Just 142,000 Jobs In August, Unemployment Down To

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Yup. that's what happens under capitalism.
    That is what happens under any system you think it is bad in capitalism try a communist or socialist system. there is the true have's and have not's.


    It's always been a serious issue in this country, regardless of if anyone was making a political issue of it.

    But during the middle of the 20th century, when our economic growth was best, all income classes grew in income at about the same rate. So during those years, the issue was resolved. Our pie was growing and everyone was benefiting from it. Around the middle of the 1970s, for whatever reason, virtually all of the fruits of our increasing productivity started going to the rich, and while our pie was still growing, the only slice that increased in size was the slice that the rich enjoyed.
    it is called a global economy. the US could no longer compete by paying a guy 30 dollars an hour to put a bolt in while someone else was paying him 5 dollars to do the same job.
    the 70's and the 80's saw the explosion of the overseas markets.

    lack of fair trade policies and huge trade deficits to other countries lead to an even larger pool being thrown out the window. it also didn't help that the Dollar was the number 1 ranking currency at the time and never allowed to adjust it's status.

    which meant it cost more for people to buy our goods compared to someone else.

    with the drop in the dollar it has made US goods cheaper to buy therefore opened up markets where their isn't any.

    again you want a stronger faster growing economy? then tell obama to stop going after and threating companies with more taxes and fines.

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    Re: Jobs Report: U.S. Economy Added Just 142,000 Jobs In August, Unemployment Down To

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Sure, income has always pooled, and that's one of the drawbacks to a free capitalistic economy.

    I actually want the rich to become richer, and I want the non-rich to become richer also. But what happens under capitalism is that money tends to pool in the hands of the rich at a rate so fast that incomes for the masses never rise, even when our society becomes more productive. During the mid 20th century we successfully preventing this from happening by having a high amount of unionization and a very progressive tax rate. We now have much less unionization and a much less progressive tax rate, and nearly 40 years now, all of the economic fruits of our increases in productivity have gone to the rich. Those in the middle have only been able to keep their standard of living up by going far deeper into debt than our parents did, and from being able to enjoy some of the non-economic benefits of new technology (mostly convenience of things like cell phones and having lots more channels to watch on tv).

    Seems to me that the best way to return to the scenario where our newly created economic wealth is shared by all is to return to the tax and wage policies that we had prior to the mid 1970's.

    One , Unions became greedy, corrupt and could no longer compete in a Global economy.

    They're more concerned with justifying their existence and maintaining their power than they are about helping the American worker stay employed.

    Case in point was their reaction to Michigan turning into a right to work State.

    They expressed themselves as common thugs for everyone to see.

    Capitalism and the free market are responsible for pulling more people out of poverty than Socialism and Communism combined.

    You lay the blame of the shrinking middle class at the feet of Capitalism ?

    I blame the absolute corruption of the free markets by Political and ideological forces that oppose it on principle for the shrinking Middle class and the widening gap between rich and poor.

    " Capitalism " has never been defined as Government intervention into a free market for the purpose of economic and social justice.

    Or Government intervention into the free markets for the purpose of Political expedience.

    Raising taxes on the Rich in a Global Economy with Global markets and with our current technology is just a lose lose situation.

    I wish the left would get that through their thick skulls.

    The " rich " and the " Corporations " no matter how hard you try to control them, tax them, punish them or regulate them always have options.

    Like mobility for one. Or pushing their investments off shore and out if America and out if your town.

    And the sad thing is they're waiting for opportunities to invest their stagnant piles of wealth here. In America.

    Proof is States like Texas and Cities like Houston, Plano, Austin, Dallas where every where you turn your head a new tower crane is rising out if the earth

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    Re: Jobs Report: U.S. Economy Added Just 142,000 Jobs In August, Unemployment Down To

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    ... And the sad thing is they're waiting for opportunities to invest their stagnant piles of wealth here. In America.

    Proof is States like Texas and Cities like Houston, Plano, Austin, Dallas where every where you turn your head a new tower crane is rising out if the earth
    So are you suggesting that is is more an issue with state and local regulations and taxes than federal regulations and taxes that are preventing companies from expanding?
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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