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Thread: Poll: 71 percent say keep Redskin

  1. #181
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    Re: Poll: 71 percent say keep Redskin

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    But were they 'real' Indians being polled or did they just say they were?


    "...The flaw in random and anonymous polls of Native Americans' opinion is that they must rely upon self-identification to select the target group. In an editorial in the Bloomington Herald Times, Steve Russell (an enrolled Cherokee citizen and associate professor of criminal justice at Indiana University), states that both the Sports Illustrated and Annenberg's samples of "self-identified Native Americans... includes plenty of people who have nothing to do with Indians".[76]

    The problem of individuals claiming to be Native American when they are not is well known in academic research, and is a particular problem when non-natives claim Indian identity specifically to gain authority in the debate over sports mascots. In the Annenberg Poll, respondents were asked their race however, before being questioned about the teams' name.[75][77]....

    At the Center for Indigenous Peoples Studies at California State University, San Bernardino a survey has conducted of 400 individuals whose identity as Native American was verified, finding that 67% agreed with the statement that "Redskins" is offensive and racist. The response from non-natives was almost the opposite, with 68% responding that the name is not offensive.
    Redskin (slang) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Soo...67% of 'authentic' Indians are offended by the use of redskins.
    I see. Don't like the results so you make claims that the people used in the poll I used are not real Indians.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  2. #182
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    Re: Poll: 71 percent say keep Redskin

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    It's a football team. Think they put a farmer there?
    So what? If the reference is only to football then there's no Native American nexus to this discussion.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  3. #183
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    Re: Poll: 71 percent say keep Redskin

    Quote Originally Posted by bubbabgone View Post
    Oh that's not very nice.
    Start your own thread :P

  4. #184
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    Re: Poll: 71 percent say keep Redskin

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    It's a football team. Anyway, check out the history.
    There's nothing warlike in the logo.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  5. #185
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    Re: Poll: 71 percent say keep Redskin

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Actually, there's nothing in the logo to preclude any of those.
    It's a warrior. Stop playing stupid.

    Washington Redskins Logos - National Football League (NFL) - Chris Creamer's Sports Logos Page - SportsLogos.Net

    And if the spear logo doesn't convince you of the intended idea:

    The only way an Indian can actually get one of these [eagle] feathers is by doing a brave deed, like fighting off a bear or going up against the enemy. They were never allowed to wear the feather until they went in front of their tribal court and retold the story of their victory. It was at this time that they were allowed to put it in their headpiece. Only chieftains, warriors, and braves have ever been awarded this special gift.
    http://www.indians.org/articles/feathers.html




    I think it's ridiculous that you need someone to prove the NA depicted is a warrior.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 09-02-14 at 09:49 PM.

  6. #186
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    Re: Poll: 71 percent say keep Redskin

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Ah yes. Activists use "verification" as a way to shape their sample and then find the result they wanted. No better (and probably worse) than the Annenberg and SI samples.
    Actually, it's more a case of using fake Indians to shape the debate so that the voices of real Indians can't be heard....

    Redskins' Indian-Chief Defender: Not A Chief, Probably Not Indian

  7. #187
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    Re: Poll: 71 percent say keep Redskin

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I see. Don't like the results so you make claims that the people used in the poll I used are not real Indians.
    It's not my fault the poll is flawed.

  8. #188
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    Re: Poll: 71 percent say keep Redskin

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    It's not my fault the poll is flawed.
    My poll is not flawed.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  9. #189
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    Re: Poll: 71 percent say keep Redskin

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    It's a warrior. Stop playing stupid.

    Washington Redskins Logos - National Football League (NFL) - Chris Creamer's Sports Logos Page - SportsLogos.Net

    And if the spear logo doesn't convince you of the intended idea:


    Discover the symbolism behind Native American feathers




    I think it's ridiculous that you need someone to prove the NA depicted is a warrior.
    I have never excluded a warrior from the depiction. I have only pointed out there is nothing explicitly warlike in the logo. That is true and nothing you have posted refutes it. Furthermore, some of the greatest warriors were also among the greatest philosophers and statesmen. Red Cloud comes to mind.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  10. #190
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    Re: Poll: 71 percent say keep Redskin

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Actually, it's more a case of using fake Indians to shape the debate so that the voices of real Indians can't be heard....

    Redskins' Indian-Chief Defender: Not A Chief, Probably Not Indian
    No one makes a claim that he represents broad Indian opinion.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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