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Police officer resigns, another is fired after Ferguson incidents[W:76]

Re: Police officer resigns, another is fired after Ferguson incidents

apdst said:
It's illegal shoot Americans with automatic fire. That's why NG soldiers have a block installed to restrict them to semi only.
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Im in the National Guard and I've never heard of such a thing. I've never heard of a rule that civilians can't be shot with automatic fire, and I've never heard of any kind of block installed in our assult rifles to make them semi. We clean weapons every drill so I think I would have noticed if a block were installed.

In fact one of my two issued personal weapons is a belt-fed machiengun; automatic fire only.
 
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Re: Police officer resigns, another is fired after Ferguson incidents

Gaius46 said:
I don't know M16s but I presume the A1 is capable of select fire?
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The "A1" designation represents a sub-type of that model. Exactly like software versions of Windows8 followed by Windows8.1, there's the M16A1 which was followed by the M16A2 and so forth.

The M16A1 is capable of full-auto fire whereas the M16A4 is not. The M16A4 can fire 3rnd bursts instead.
 
Re: Police officer resigns, another is fired after Ferguson incidents

Dittohead not! said:
We have to protect and serve ourselves, after all.
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Esentialy, yes. I'm sure Officer Go****Yourself would agree.
 
Re: Police officer resigns, another is fired after Ferguson incidents

I would have more respect for cops if they didn't view themselves as stormtroopers - and didn't carry around the attitude of "us vs them"....

Cops think they can do whatever the hell they want and pretend they're above the law or that the law doesn't apply to them.
 
Re: Police officer resigns, another is fired after Ferguson incidents

Jerry said:
Im in the National Guard and I've never heard of such a thing. I've never heard of a rule that civilians can't be shot with automatic fire, and I've never heard of any kind of block installed in our assult rifles to make them semi. We clean weapons every drill so I think I would have noticed if a block were installed.

In fact one of my two issued personal weapons is a belt-fed machiengun; automatic fire only.
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It's called a "locking plate" and it isn't a permanent install. During riot control operations they're mandatory, by law. If you're deployed to control a riot, issued live rounds and authorized to use deadly force, make sure it's installed on your weapon. If it's not, refuse to accept the live rounds. Forcing you to lock and load against American civilians, without the locking plate installed is an unlawful order. Absolutely refuse to draw an M-249 for such a scenario.

It's installed like so,

1zgfcd3.jpg


Stock number: NSN 5340-00-233-9031
 
Re: Police officer resigns, another is fired after Ferguson incidents

Mr.Nick said:
I would have more respect for cops if they didn't view themselves as stormtroopers - and didn't carry around the attitude of "us vs them"....

Cops think they can do whatever the hell they want and pretend they're above the law or that the law doesn't apply to them.
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That us vs them thing is very hard to avoid. It's a survival tool.
 
Re: Police officer resigns, another is fired after Ferguson incidents

apdst said:
It's called a "locking plate" and it isn't a permanent install. During riot control operations they're mandatory, by law. If you're deployed to control a riot, issued live rounds and authorized to use deadly force, make sure it's installed on your weapon. If it's not, refuse to accept the live rounds. Forcing you to lock and load against American civilians, without the locking plate installed is an unlawful order. Absolutely refuse to draw an M-249 for such a scenario.

It's installed like so,

1zgfcd3.jpg


Stock number: NSN 5340-00-233-9031
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Lern something new everyday.
 
Dittohead not! said:
I'm reading just find. You said:

which is true, of course.

I replied:



which is also true.

Now, are you going to argue that, under the Taliban, it's OK to kill thieves after the fact, but not if they're caught in the act?
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Sorry I misread it. "During the fact" is odd.

And yes, in TX you can....it was your disgruntlement with this that started this conversation.
 
Re: Police officer resigns, another is fired after Ferguson incidents

Jerry said:
Lern something new everyday.
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I did 12 months with the reserve training detachment assigned to 2/156th INF, 256th INF BD, headquartered in Abbeville, La. I had the opportunity to attend civil disturbance training with them a few times.

That JAG office that gave the legal brief during the training made no bones about it, "If you shoot someone without a locking plate installed on your weapon, you WILL go to prison".
 
Re: Police officer resigns, another is fired after Ferguson incidents

apdst said:
I did 12 months with the reserve training detachment assigned to 2/156th INF, 256th INF BD, headquartered in Abbeville, La. I had the opportunity to attend civil disturbance training with them a few times.

That JAG office that gave the legal brief during the training made no bones about it, "If you shoot someone without a locking plate installed on your weapon, you WILL go to prison".
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I've seen MPs carry assult rifles over at the air base. No blocks. Is this a rule spicificaly for riot operations? Do you recall the relevant law or FM?
 
Re: Police officer resigns, another is fired after Ferguson incidents

Jerry said:
I've seen MPs carry assult rifles over at the air base. No blocks. Is this a rule spicificaly for riot operations? Do you recall the relevant law or FM?
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As far as I know it's strictly for scenarios where troops are deployed for riots, crowd control, etc. It's a big deal in Louisiana, because when a hurricana hits, National Guard soldiers are often employed to pull security: road blocks, checkpoints, etc. to control who enters certain areas. They're usually issued live rounds when they perform those types of missions.
 
Re: Police officer resigns, another is fired after Ferguson incidents

apdst said:
As far as I know it's strictly for scenarios where troops are deployed for riots, crowd control, etc. It's a big deal in Louisiana, because when a hurricana hits, National Guard soldiers are often employed to pull security: road blocks, checkpoints, etc. to control who enters certain areas. They're usually issued live rounds when they perform those types of missions.
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When my unit went to Katrina to help clean up they packed their M9s. No rifles. I thought that was odd, now I know why.
 
Lursa said:
Sorry I misread it. "During the fact" is odd.

And yes, in TX you can....it was your disgruntlement with this that started this conversation.
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Right. My original observation was that making it legal to kill people involved in property crimes put property over human life in value.

Oh, yes, and I did observe that the Taliban had similar values.

I didn't know Texas was so close to that same philosophy.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Right. My original observation was that making it legal to kill people involved in property crimes put property over human life in value.

Oh, yes, and I did observe that the Taliban had similar values.

I didn't know Texas was so close to that same philosophy.
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Sorry, it wasnt putting property crimes over human life....it was the protection of property using lethal force (taking a human life)

That's the only one, it's pretty specific. And the premise is that a person spends their life, their work, to acquire that property on which their lives and the lives of their family depends. And that taking that property endangers the family. If it can be *prevented,* then it is preservation of the family. If it cant be prevented, you cant go and kill or even commit assault to take your property back....then you need to depend on 'the wheels of justice.'


Even in Seattle, liberal city, a few years ago a man shot a guy running away, stealing his stereo. He shot him in the back and killed him. He was charged but got off of almost all charges and ended up just with 'time served.' I forget the specific charge he ended up with but it wasnt a murder charge.

Stealing is risky. Thieves are the ones that place property above their lives.
 
Re: Police officer resigns, another is fired after Ferguson incidents

Misterveritis said:
Loser pays solve these nuisance lawsuits. Disbarring the losing lawyers might help as well.
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Wow. Is this a thread hijack? Snort (seems like the entire contents of this thread have become a hijack).

Anyway I see the validity of this sentiment, but how many 'reasonable' lawsuits wouldn't be filed because the plaintiff didn't have the bucks to payoff the process if defeated? The jury's decision in the OJ Simpson comes to mind...(crazy decisions in court cases).

Maybe every plaintiff, before filing the lawsuit, pays into a 'loser's fund'? Call it plaintiff loser's insurance?... Which probably wouldn't lessen the amount of lawsuits... Always look for the loophole...
 
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Re: Police officer resigns, another is fired after Ferguson incidents

Jerry said:
That us vs them thing is very hard <for law enforcement> to avoid. It's a survival tool.
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Especially when the masses have this attitude:

Mr.Nick said:
I would have more respect for cops if they didn't view themselves as stormtroopers - and didn't carry around the attitude of "us vs them"....

Cops think they can do whatever the hell they want and pretend they're above the law or that the law doesn't apply to them.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Police officer resigns, another is fired after Ferguson incidents

cabse5 said:
Especially when the masses have this attitude:
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The cops are the real criminals - they're a bunch of yahoos, and I have seen their tyranny and laziness first hand.... Hell, my dad just won $150,000 in a lawsuit because the storm troopers invaded his home without a warrant and tased him for no damn reason (oh and it's also a viral video to boot)...

I have no respect for those tyrannical monsters, I wont even talk to them.

Anyone who refers to others as "bad guys" either has the mentality of a child or has some sort of complex....
 
Re: Police officer resigns, another is fired after Ferguson incidents

Or is a bigot? Really, who were the bigot(s) that caused the disaster in Ferguson?
 
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Re: Police officer resigns, another is fired after Ferguson incidents

apdst said:
I did 12 months with the reserve training detachment assigned to 2/156th INF, 256th INF BD, headquartered in Abbeville, La. I had the opportunity to attend civil disturbance training with them a few times.

That JAG office that gave the legal brief during the training made no bones about it, "If you shoot someone without a locking plate installed on your weapon, you WILL go to prison".
Click to expand...

I understand you but the rules you operate under as a member of NG are not necessarily the rules that a police agency would operate under. I spent some time reading up on NFA weapons last night at the ATF website and honestly can find nothing that would stop a police agency from employing automatic weapons. I did find a citation about how states and localities can apply to the ATF to keep confiscated automatic weapons - which implies to me that there is no law against it.

Other than that I found a couple of news articles about unmodified M16s that were stolen from the police that were in in the process of being converted into semi automatic weapons. But for each of those I found news articles attesting to the fact that cops have access to automatic weapons (yes I know that newspaper people by and large don't understand weapons but can a dozen reporters be wrong?) and more tellingly several posts on LE message boards where folks claiming to be SWAT types stated they have routine access to automatic weapons. Draw whatever conclusions you want from those.

When I get a chance I'll ask a couple of friends who were or are on the job. maybe they know.
 
Re: Police officer resigns, another is fired after Ferguson incidents

apdst said:
It's illegal shoot Americans with automatic fire. That's why NG soldiers have a block installed to restrict them to semi only.
Click to expand...

SWTF??? Who told you that load of misinformation? I know about the lock-outs that can be put on the M-16, but I've never heard of that law you mention. Can you enlighten me with a link to the law? Thanks in advance.

FWIW, we used the lockouts to prevent rapid fire in situations where we didn't want to make our presence sound like a full on Division assault.
 
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Re: Police officer resigns, another is fired after Ferguson incidents

Beaudreaux said:
SWTF??? Who told you that load of misinformation? I know about the lock-outs that can be put on the M-16, but I've never heard of that law you mention. Can you enlighten me with a link to the law? Thanks in advance.

FWIW, we used the lockouts to prevent rapid fire in situations where we didn't want to make our presence sound like a full on Division assault.
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The Army did.
 
Re: Police officer resigns, another is fired after Ferguson incidents

apdst said:
The Army did.
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We're looking for the exact field manual or law. A link would be nice.
 
Lursa said:
Sorry, it wasnt putting property crimes over human life....it was the protection of property using lethal force (taking a human life)

That's the only one, it's pretty specific. And the premise is that a person spends their life, their work, to acquire that property on which their lives and the lives of their family depends. And that taking that property endangers the family. If it can be *prevented,* then it is preservation of the family. If it cant be prevented, you cant go and kill or even commit assault to take your property back....then you need to depend on 'the wheels of justice.'


Even in Seattle, liberal city, a few years ago a man shot a guy running away, stealing his stereo. He shot him in the back and killed him. He was charged but got off of almost all charges and ended up just with 'time served.' I forget the specific charge he ended up with but it wasnt a murder charge.

Stealing is risky. Thieves are the ones that place property above their lives.
Click to expand...

Yes, stealing is risky. Do thieves place the value of what they're stealing above their lives? Well, they're pretty quick to drop it and run when the occasion calls for it.

Now, that stereo...did the life of the owner and his family depend on that stereo? Really? When someone is stealing such a piece of equipment, is it really your contention that it's OK to kill them to protect the stereo, and yet you're not placing the value of property over the value of life?

The stereo owner who shot the thief in the back must value the stereo more than freedom, as he is extremely lucky not to have been thrown in jail for a very long time on a second degree murder charge. Shooting people in the back while they're running away is not justifiable homicide anywhere in the USA.

But, it might be acceptable in Iran, I'm not sure.
 
Re: Police officer resigns, another is fired after Ferguson incidents

Jerry said:
We're looking for the exact field manual or law. A link would be nice.
Click to expand...

Im going on what the JAG said. Obvioisly a device to restrict automatic fire exists for a reason.
 
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