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Thread: Police officer resigns, another is fired after Ferguson incidents[W:76]

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    Re: Police officer resigns, another is fired after Ferguson incidents

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Chapter 4
    I read both sections of chapter 4, it's not there. You refrenced a section 4-6 but there is no section 4-6. See my previous link.

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    Re: Police officer resigns, another is fired after Ferguson incidents

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I read both sections of chapter 4, it's not there. You refrenced a section 4-6 but there is no section 4-6. See my previous link.
    We're looking at two different NGR 500's. That's why you can't find what I'm referring to.

    www.ngbpdc.ngb.army.mil/.../ngr5

    Edit: the link won't work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Police officer resigns, another is fired after Ferguson incidents

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    We're looking at two different NGR 500's. That's why you can't find what I'm referring to.

    www.ngbpdc.ngb.army.mil/.../ngr5

    Edit: the link won't work.
    vBulliten forum software inserts an elipsis into very long URLs, often rendering the link inert.

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    Re: Police officer resigns, another is fired after Ferguson incidents[W:76]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    I dont know how the stereo owner felt about his property and you certainly dont know how thieves feel about their lives...you are assuming (incorrectly) that many/most drop stuff? My claim is based on the FACT that they choose to risk their lives for property.

    I would not shoot someone for a stereo but obviously the law, even in a liberal area, recognizes a person's right to protect their property using lethal force.

    So you keep trying to be all judgemental here, but it seems baseless. It is your opinion. Cool. And you get to live accordingly. No one is forcing you to kill people who take your stuff. But aside from the judgementalism, do you have a point?
    So, the law allows you to kill in defense of your property? Really? You mentioned Texas, so maybe they have passed laws making property more valuable than human life, but I'm not so sure even there it's legal to kill a thief who is running away.

    Yes, of course I have a point. The point is a human life is more important than a stereo, even that of a thief.

    Yes, I understand that you and the Taliban don't agree with that, but I'm fairly certain that the law is on my side here in the USA.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Police officer resigns, another is fired after Ferguson incidents

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    We're looking at two different NGR 500's. That's why you can't find what I'm referring to.

    www.ngbpdc.ngb.army.mil/.../ngr5

    Edit: the link won't work.
    Having read the entirety of http://www.apd.army.mil/pdffiles/r190_14.pdf and http://armypubs.army.mil/doctrine/DR...atp3_39x33.pdf , I was unable to find anything specific to automatic fire. However, the overarching theme of the use-of-force doctrine is deploying lethal force only in self defense or to prevent the certain loss of a critical asset. Civilians are never to be attacked with lethal force, as they can be with non-lethal weapons to, say, disperse a crowd or deny entry into a broad open area (offensive use of teargas to clear streets, for example, is perfectly acceptable). Additionally, throughout both documents the insistence of involving JAG in creating any use-of-force matrix, with ongoing incident review with JAG, is persistent. A JAG order to disable select-fire is consistent with the defensive theme since select-fire and certainly full-auto fire are primarily offensive tools used to attack and kill the enemy, not merely self-defense.
    Last edited by Jerry; 09-05-14 at 09:48 PM.

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    Re: Police officer resigns, another is fired after Ferguson incidents[W:76]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    So, the law allows you to kill in defense of your property? Really? You mentioned Texas, so maybe they have passed laws making property more valuable than human life, but I'm not so sure even there it's legal to kill a thief who is running away.

    Yes, of course I have a point. The point is a human life is more important than a stereo, even that of a thief.

    Yes, I understand that you and the Taliban don't agree with that, but I'm fairly certain that the law is on my side here in the USA.
    The law allows the military to kill you in defense of property, too, and the military assisting LEOs in a civil disturbance are under the most restrictive rules.

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    Re: Police officer resigns, another is fired after Ferguson incidents[W:76]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    So, the law allows you to kill in defense of your property? Really? You mentioned Texas, so maybe they have passed laws making property more valuable than human life, but I'm not so sure even there it's legal to kill a thief who is running away.

    Yes, of course I have a point. The point is a human life is more important than a stereo, even that of a thief.

    Yes, I understand that you and the Taliban don't agree with that, but I'm fairly certain that the law is on my side here in the USA.
    What about tools, or equipment that one uses to make a living? Too feed one's family? Do I have the right to protect that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Police officer resigns, another is fired after Ferguson incidents[W:76]

    Please know your law. A few thoughts from this soldier....
    ~Posse Comitatus only ever applied to Title-10 USC Federal Armed Forces. National Guard assisting police in civil disturbances are activated under Title-32 USC and are "state employees", not Federal "Armed Forces", and thus Posse Comitatus does not apply.
    ~Soldiers are only allowed to use lethal force strictly in self defense, or if the certain loss of a critical asset is imminent. We soldiers are never, ever authorized to attack civilians with machine-guns. An order to spray down civilians is an unlawful order and both the soldier giving the order and the solder pulling the trigger will go to prison.
    ~Civilian law enforcement remains in control of National Guard assets at all times. Any decision to place snipers was approved by the local police, who likely have their own SWAT snipers deployed already.
    ~At all times and in all things, the least amount of force required is all that is authorized. A riot scenario has to escalate well beyond what teargas and batons can control for snipers to start shooting instigators.
    ~We are not mindless robots. We are people too. We have children and families and jobs just like everyone else.

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    Re: Police officer resigns, another is fired after Ferguson incidents[W:76]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    So, the law allows you to kill in defense of your property? Really? You mentioned Texas, so maybe they have passed laws making property more valuable than human life, but I'm not so sure even there it's legal to kill a thief who is running away.

    Yes, of course I have a point. The point is a human life is more important than a stereo, even that of a thief.

    Yes, I understand that you and the Taliban don't agree with that, but I'm fairly certain that the law is on my side here in the USA.
    Yes, the law in TX allows you to use lethal force to protect property. I have told you that from the beginning.

    And it is your opinion that human life is more important than a stereo, even that of a thief.

    I didnt say I disagreed with it....I didnt give my opinion...I explained the law.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Police officer resigns, another is fired after Ferguson incidents[W:76]

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    What about tools, or equipment that one uses to make a living? Too feed one's family? Do I have the right to protect that?
    In New York - my home state and the state whose laws I am most familiar with - you do not. Deadly physical force is only authorized in if one reasonably believes that deadly physical force is about to be used against them and has no means to safely escape. The escape part applies in your home as well btw. I'd guess many states are similar.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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