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Thread: Michael Sam released by Rams

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    Re: Michael Sam released by Rams

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Actually this played out pretty much exactly how most people I saw comment on Sam said it would play out. I think your interpretation of the narrative is a little...slanted. He was undersized, slow, and lacked the strength to play ANY position in the NFL. Now...I dont know about what others said, but I said I would have passed on him for the same reason I would have passed on Manziel. No NFL team needs the side show.

    If he wants to play in the NFL, I think he has one option. Work out in the coming year with Tight End or Fullback coaches and switch to offense. No doubt he is athletic...he just cant play defense at an NFL level. If he can learn to run pass routes and catch balls, he would be a beast at TE.
    Yeah, he is a bit undersized. Most likely he'll be on a practice squad, or in Canada. I think he'd do really well in Canada, truthfully, if he can play well enough that it's worth using one of the "import" slots (they have rules about how many non-Canadians you can have). If somebody really badly needs pash rush help, there's the possibility that he could become an outside linebacker pass rush specialist. But who knows.

    As far as the narrative goes, those were all things said on this board by conservatives who were horrified that a gay got drafted. Even on this very thread...Personally, I think it was a football decision, but his college resume said he deserved a chance.


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    Re: Michael Sam released by Rams

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Yeah, he is a bit undersized. Most likely he'll be on a practice squad, or in Canada. I think he'd do really well in Canada, truthfully, if he can play well enough that it's worth using one of the "import" slots (they have rules about how many non-Canadians you can have). If somebody really badly needs pash rush help, there's the possibility that he could become an outside linebacker pass rush specialist. But who knows.

    As far as the narrative goes, those were all things said on this board by conservatives who were horrified that a gay got drafted. Even on this very thread...Personally, I think it was a football decision, but his college resume said he deserved a chance.

    The homophobes are torn over this. They want so badly for it to be about his sexual orientation. While at the same time they want to be able to say that he just wanted good enough. The reality is....there is a lot of talent and it is a very competitive league. This was strictly a football business decision.
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    Re: Michael Sam released by Rams

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Yeah, he is a bit undersized. Most likely he'll be on a practice squad, or in Canada. I think he'd do really well in Canada, truthfully, if he can play well enough that it's worth using one of the "import" slots (they have rules about how many non-Canadians you can have). If somebody really badly needs pash rush help, there's the possibility that he could become an outside linebacker pass rush specialist. But who knows.

    As far as the narrative goes, those were all things said on this board by conservatives who were horrified that a gay got drafted. Even on this very thread...Personally, I think it was a football decision, but his college resume said he deserved a chance.
    NP is probably the only one I saw that was really committed to th anti-gay rhetoric. But that wont stop you from trying to claim anyone that felt it wasnt a great choice from doing so because they are homophobic. You use him to promote an agenda as readily as those 'other guys'.

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    Re: Michael Sam released by Rams

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Don't bet on it...........To much baggage at this time. He should have kept his mouth shut.
    Keeping his "mouth shut" would've been idiotic. His ENTIRE TEAM at Mizzu knew that he was gay. He wasn't significantly closeted in a public fashion. So the moment he was going to get onto the national scene with something like the Combine this probably would've been "Exposed". So instead of it being weeks/months before the combine, able to blow over to a certain extent, and be done on a timeline of his choosing...it likely would've blown up right around the combine or the draft and being completely out of his control.

    There was little to no chance that Michael Sam being gay wasn't going to be discovered and publicized at some point during this process...the only question was whether it'd be on his terms in the least detrimental way possible for him, or by some other persons terms right in the midst of the heart of the draft process.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Hence he was released...The fact he was even given a shot or drafted was a publicity stunt.
    Ridiculous. NFL teams do not spend draft picks on "publicity stunts". You happily bragged about your drafting in the MLB, so perhaps you're mixing it up with the MLB where extremely late round picks are used for publicity stunts. That doesn't happen in the NFL when they only have 7 rounds.

    Sam was drafted because the Rams thought he could possibly be a contributor but knew it was unlikely he'd sign there as a Undrafted Free Agent since they had a pretty deep roster. This is normal 7th round strategy for teams who see a player they like at a position they're somewhat loaded at because UDFA tend to want to sign with a team that's a little weak at their position for a better chance of sticking.

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Once again....NP exposes his mega-homophobia and hypocrisy for all to see. In one thread he claims the guy just wasn't good enough to play.....in the next he claims that he could play if he "kept his mouth shut" . Which is it NP?
    Once again....Disneydude exposes his mega-obsession with dishonestly attacking everything NP says at all cost. I disagree with Navy, but it's absolutely plausible and logically consistent to say he's not good enough to play weighed against the potential distraction he causes (which has largely been what NP's argument has been consistently when read in total and not dishonestly cherry picked) AND to suggest he would be playing if he had "kept his mouth shut" because in such a situation the balance of risk/worth would change.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Truth be told all those millionaires on the Rams did not want to shower with him I don't care what they say publically.
    Well, I'm glad I now clearly know the target audience EPSN had with their ignorant, laughably ridiculously, out of line, non-football related BS.

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Yeah, he is a bit undersized. Most likely he'll be on a practice squad, or in Canada. I think he'd do really well in Canada, truthfully, if he can play well enough that it's worth using one of the "import" slots (they have rules about how many non-Canadians you can have). If somebody really badly needs pash rush help, there's the possibility that he could become an outside linebacker pass rush specialist. But who knows.
    I think he'll definitely probably get picked up by a practice squad...but I do agree, I could see him excelling in Canada.

    As far as the narrative goes, those were all things said on this board by conservatives who were horrified that a gay got drafted. Even on this very thread...Personally, I think it was a football decision, but his college resume said he deserved a chance.
    To be fair, the board was getting a pretty good bit of hysterics from the extreme ends of this argument on both sides. You had some conservatives going on and on about how a gay was only drafted as a publicity stunt and he couldn't play. You had liberals though suggesting he got drafted WAY lower than he should've been because he's gay and pumping him up as a very good player that was going to be a steal.

    The reality is Sam got drafted about where his talent, production, measurables, and intangibles probably called for. He showed well in the preseason against 2nd and 3rd stringers but got caught in a numbers game. He didn't exactly flash on special teams, which does hurt him a bit as a 3rd stringer. His best bet at this point is to get onto a practice squad and try to develop a bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    If he wants to play in the NFL, I think he has one option. Work out in the coming year with Tight End or Fullback coaches and switch to offense. No doubt he is athletic...he just cant play defense at an NFL level. If he can learn to run pass routes and catch balls, he would be a beast at TE.
    Ridiculous. He's not got the measurables to be a starting tight end in this league, and to be a 2nd or 3rd stringer the need to be good on ST's is going to be there just as much as being a lineman/linebacker. AND that's not even taking into account he'd be changing positions from what he's done his whole life.

    Fullback would be even worse. Not even every team in the league carries a full back, and most that do usually only carry one.

    He looked good against 2nd and 3rd stringers, true. However, a 2nd or 3rd stringer looking good against 2nd or 3rd stringers is a GOOD THING. Did he look like he could be a starter sometime real soon? No. But he looked like he could develop into a relatively decent backup pass rushing specialist. Would he DEFINITELY develop into that? No. But being one of those crazy people that likes watching preseason football, he showed better than some 2nd or 3rd stringers at DE or 3-4 OLB that I've seen over the years.

    His best option for the NFL is to try and get onto a practice squad and attempt to continue to develop. Get in the weight room and work on putting some extra muscle onto the frame. Work on his technique. And get practice against NFL quality players. He's not going to significantly increase his speed, but if he can work on technique that can help that a bit.

    Finding a way to improve on ST would help, but that would be the case regardless of position he played.

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    Re: Michael Sam released by Rams

    Quote Originally Posted by Hari Seldon View Post
    I'm sure those tackles for losses and sacks in preseason were a publicity stunt as well. Probably paid the other team to let him look good.
    Then why was he cut??

    I was just waiting for someone to turn this into a gay thing...

    If the kid was viable he would have a roster spot.

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    Re: Michael Sam released by Rams

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Keeping his "mouth shut" would've been idiotic. His ENTIRE TEAM at Mizzu knew that he was gay. He wasn't significantly closeted in a public fashion. So the moment he was going to get onto the national scene with something like the Combine this probably would've been "Exposed". So instead of it being weeks/months before the combine, able to blow over to a certain extent, and be done on a timeline of his choosing...it likely would've blown up right around the combine or the draft and being completely out of his control.

    There was little to no chance that Michael Sam being gay wasn't going to be discovered and publicized at some point during this process...the only question was whether it'd be on his terms in the least detrimental way possible for him, or by some other persons terms right in the midst of the heart of the draft process.



    Ridiculous. NFL teams do not spend draft picks on "publicity stunts". You happily bragged about your drafting in the MLB, so perhaps you're mixing it up with the MLB where extremely late round picks are used for publicity stunts. That doesn't happen in the NFL when they only have 7 rounds.

    Sam was drafted because the Rams thought he could possibly be a contributor but knew it was unlikely he'd sign there as a Undrafted Free Agent since they had a pretty deep roster. This is normal 7th round strategy for teams who see a player they like at a position they're somewhat loaded at because UDFA tend to want to sign with a team that's a little weak at their position for a better chance of sticking.



    Once again....Disneydude exposes his mega-obsession with dishonestly attacking everything NP says at all cost. I disagree with Navy, but it's absolutely plausible and logically consistent to say he's not good enough to play weighed against the potential distraction he causes (which has largely been what NP's argument has been consistently when read in total and not dishonestly cherry picked) AND to suggest he would be playing if he had "kept his mouth shut" because in such a situation the balance of risk/worth would change.



    Well, I'm glad I now clearly know the target audience EPSN had with their ignorant, laughably ridiculously, out of line, non-football related BS.



    I think he'll definitely probably get picked up by a practice squad...but I do agree, I could see him excelling in Canada.



    To be fair, the board was getting a pretty good bit of hysterics from the extreme ends of this argument on both sides. You had some conservatives going on and on about how a gay was only drafted as a publicity stunt and he couldn't play. You had liberals though suggesting he got drafted WAY lower than he should've been because he's gay and pumping him up as a very good player that was going to be a steal.

    The reality is Sam got drafted about where his talent, production, measurables, and intangibles probably called for. He showed well in the preseason against 2nd and 3rd stringers but got caught in a numbers game. He didn't exactly flash on special teams, which does hurt him a bit as a 3rd stringer. His best bet at this point is to get onto a practice squad and try to develop a bit.



    Ridiculous. He's not got the measurables to be a starting tight end in this league, and to be a 2nd or 3rd stringer the need to be good on ST's is going to be there just as much as being a lineman/linebacker. AND that's not even taking into account he'd be changing positions from what he's done his whole life.

    Fullback would be even worse. Not even every team in the league carries a full back, and most that do usually only carry one.

    He looked good against 2nd and 3rd stringers, true. However, a 2nd or 3rd stringer looking good against 2nd or 3rd stringers is a GOOD THING. Did he look like he could be a starter sometime real soon? No. But he looked like he could develop into a relatively decent backup pass rushing specialist. Would he DEFINITELY develop into that? No. But being one of those crazy people that likes watching preseason football, he showed better than some 2nd or 3rd stringers at DE or 3-4 OLB that I've seen over the years.

    His best option for the NFL is to try and get onto a practice squad and attempt to continue to develop. Get in the weight room and work on putting some extra muscle onto the frame. Work on his technique. And get practice against NFL quality players. He's not going to significantly increase his speed, but if he can work on technique that can help that a bit.

    Finding a way to improve on ST would help, but that would be the case regardless of position he played.
    He was cut because he was not good enough to make the team. I think we can all agree to that. He wasn't good enough playing against not just second and third stringers but against draft players in the same boat he was. The special teams thing...THATS ridiculous. He needs weight to play defensive line and strength. He isn't fast enough to play linebacker. He may be good enough to make a practice squad. Players switch position all the time. With the body build and speed he DOES have, he could make the conversion to either position well.

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    Re: Michael Sam released by Rams

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Then why was he cut??

    I was just waiting for someone to turn this into a gay thing...

    If the kid was viable he would have a roster spot.
    I guess he was released because the Rams had better players at his position. At least that is what the posters who follow the Rams have said. You are the one who called it a publicity stunt. I just pointed out he seemed to well when he was given a chance to play thereby contradicting your assertion it was merely a publicity stunt. It not like Eddie Gaedel was hired to take a walk. That was a publicity stunt. 100's of players got gut. Many will get resigned to practice squads, play in Canada or make other teams. YOU are the one making it a gay thing.
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    Re: Michael Sam released by Rams

    The problem with Sam isn't so much his measurable' s for his position (DE), athleticism notwithstanding, to me from what I saw against 2nd and 3rd stringers was that his "move" off the line and get off was very slow, and predictable. He had trouble shedding blockers, and almost never was able to leverage himself against larger men. In the series that I watched him, he could only hold the outside edge in maybe 50% of his assignments, and that my dear sports fans is a NO NO for NFL caliber D-ENDS, that, coupled with his inability to play ST was his undoing, and frankly he doesn't even make any of the 31 others teams practices squads, because they all saw what I saw, and that is an undersized, slow, and predictable LB playing DE.

    I don't even think he has the measurable's for the CFL, but we'll see I suppose.



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    Re: Michael Sam released by Rams

    If the god's of irony are paying any attention at all, Navy Pride is wearing a James Harrison jersey while he uses Sam being cut as the basis of his argument that Sam "just isn't good enough to play in the NFL".

    Arian Foster and Jason Peters also spent time on the practice squad before making it and eventually going on to multiple pro-bowls and all-pro awards.
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    Re: Michael Sam released by Rams

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    He was cut because he was not good enough to make the team.
    Correct. However, being cut because you're not good enough to make ONE PARTICULAR team does not equal not being good enough to make ANY team. Also, there process is still playing out to see if he'll be a part of the Rams this year (or any other team). One can still be a member of a team without actually being on their 53 man roster (via the practice squad).

    Duke Ihenacho was not good enough to to make the Denver Bronco's team because they were somewhat deep at safety. He IS good enough to probably start for the Redskins, who just traded him. The inability to make a SPECIFIC team in a general sense in no way indicates ones ability to play in the NFL.

    I see him developing far better as a potential 3rd or 2nd string pass rushing specialist at DE then I see him developing as a 3rd or 2nd string TE or full back personally. Specifically because I think he'll do the former better than the later, and with his ho-hum ability on special teams he's going to need to be GOOD at something on one side of the ball to warrant taking up a 2nd or 3rd string spot. I think with a bit of development he has a better shot of doing that as a pass rusher over a TE.

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