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WHITE HOUSE TO PUTIN Don't 'Even Think About Messing Around' With The Baltics

shrubnose said:
Wrong.

The future is the future. Now is now.

Get a grip on reality.
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Okay.

"Now" is the result of the actions in the past.

Let's hope the actions "now" are a little less short sighted and ill advised.

We won't know, though, until the future reveals what the effects of those causes become.
 
VanceMack said:
No one needs to help Obama look bad.

:lamo Sure it's a fake. CNN always goes out of their way to try to embarrass Obama.

Obama is a bitch. He is weak. His words are more likely to inspire aggression than to dissuade. That's what happens when you act like a bitch.
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And you suffer from a severe case of ODS.
 
code1211 said:
Okay.

"Now" is the result of the actions in the past.

Let's hope the actions "now" are a little less short sighted and ill advised.

We won't know, though, until the future reveals what the effects of those causes become.
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Another Monday morning president. Imagine that.
 
EnigmaO01 said:
And you suffer from a severe case of ODS.
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:lamo

Lord knows we shouldnt be talking about the person in the thread. No...far better you keep trying to make it be about me and not that weak bitch in the WH.
 
shrubnose said:
President Barack Obama's message to Russian president Vladimir Putin when traveling to Europe next week is to not "even think about messing around" with the Baltic states, the White House said Friday.

Read the article here: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/white-house-putin-dont-even-214107060.html

What Obama is telling Putin is that Article 5 of the NATO Treaty means that if it messes with the Baltic states or any other member of NATO it will be messing with NATO, including the USA.
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What is Obamy going to do bake him a cake?
 
EnigmaO01 said:
Another Monday morning president. Imagine that.
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I don't need to be able to throw a touch down pass to recognize when another person also cannot throw a touchdown pass.

Similarly, when the entire world is in flames and our Commander in Chief declares that he has no strategy to address it, that should be cause for concern.

The opposition wonders why he's checked out to the golf course and is seemingly detached from his responsibility. His actions are doing nothing to counter the opposition claims. How's that flexibility that he promised Putin he would have been working out?

Average income is down. World prestige is down. Taxes are up. Personal freedom is down. Border security no longer exists. The graduating generation is hopeless. The lower class that he's fighting for is less and less likely to ever rise.

Every plan results in the opposite outcome from the one promised.

What's wrong with this picture?
 
shrubnose said:
You'll see when the time comes.

Did you know that both Russia and the USA have thousands of nuclear-tipped ICBMs that can be on their way in a few moments?
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So that's your answer? Start lobbing ICBM's? No wonder the passive "No Nuke's" people rail against them, because of people like you...You're just itching to use them aren't you? Tell the truth.
 
j-mac said:
So that's your answer? Start lobbing ICBM's?
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 No wonder the passive "No Nuke's" people rail against them, because of people like you...You're just itching to use them aren't you? Tell the truth.
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I'm just pointing out the main reason why someone in the USA, like President Obama for example, needs to keep a level head while so many people are eager for instant answers to every foreign crisis.

Nukes give you almost instant answers, but who's going to clean up the world-wide nuclear mess after they incinerate and contaminate humanity?
 
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Fearandloathing said:
One, Mr. Putin is already "messing around" he annexed the Crimea in the largest military backed land grab since 1939. He has troops, tanks and missiles poised on the border and is arming pro-Russian rebels within the Ukraine itself. His secret agencies are creating dissent and unrest within the country with the clear aim to gain back Ukraine as a pro-Russian state.

What, precisely, is Obama telling him "not" to do?
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Considering Putins response to a US backed coup of the elected government of Ukraine is understandable, it seems dangerous to be pushing Russia around when they've got right on their side.

Behind the U.S.-backed coup that ousted the democratically elected president of Ukraine are the economic interests of giant corporations – from Cargill to Chevron – which see the country as a potential “gold mine” of profits from agricultural and energy exploitation, reports JP Sottile.

Despite the turmoil within Ukrainian politics after Yanukovych rejected a major trade deal with the European Union just seven weeks earlier, Cargill was confident enough about the future to fork over $200 million to buy a stake in Ukraine’s UkrLandFarming. According to Financial Times, UkrLandFarming is the world’s eighth-largest land cultivator and second biggest egg producer. And those aren’t the only eggs in Cargill’s increasingly-ample basket.

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/exposing-us-corporate-interests-behind-ukraine-putsch



“Washington and Brussels … used a Nazi coup, carried out by insurgents, terrorists and politicians of Euromaidan to serve the geopolitical interests of the West.” — Natalia Vitrenko, The Progressive Socialist Party of Ukraine
 
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JC_CT said:
It's not at all long standing though. It is a commitment made in 2004.
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So, if I'm hearing you correctly, going forward we should tell the world that our premisses, agreements, and treaties aren't worth the paper they are written on unless we wrote them a long time ago. Hmm. Typical Progressive Logic.

Once again, this Administration is playing checkers, when the rest of the world leaders are playing chess.

Just out of curiosity, why do you think we entered into that treaty in the first place?
 
j-mac said:
For 6 years now there have been so many twists, conspiracies, and complaints, and let down's with this guy...I don't think he ever really cared about the job, or at least aspects that he doesn't like to do. When Obama came in he had purpose, he wanted to "fundamentally transform" the country...Some of us asked the question 'To what?'...Now we are finding out, he wanted a USA that was irrelevant to what goes on in the world. It is a vision that carries the dangerous attitude that if the US isn't a superpower, then we aren't a target...IMHO.
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I think in the beginning, Obama seemed like a breath of fresh air to a lot of people. In terms of "transformation," to a degree I understood the sentiment, because the prevailing world view of the US was of a nation that frequently stuck their nose in foreign affairs it had no business being involved in. Manipulating other nations out of self-interest. Considering our history, with examples like "School of the Americas" in Central/South America, supporting the Shah in Iran in the mid-20th century, etc, our reputation on the world stage was in the tank.

Enter: Obama. I'd never heard of the man. A girl I worked with in college suddenly went very Pro-Obama, in her words, because he was "endorsed by Oprah." :roll: I don't think the importance of that endorsement can be overstated. Nor can the power of low-information voters in large numbers. ;)

I think he was in over his head from Day 1. The results of his foreign policy (or rather, lack of policy) are being seen today. The US is not perfect. I think we would have a stronger leg to stand on if we didn't privately employ the very shady "tactics" we publicly denounce. I can understand how we are viewed as hypocritical.

Regardless, it is clear that we bring more stability to the world when we are ENGAGED internationally. The world IS safer & more secure. As my southern belle grandma says... "Them's the facts, sugar foot!" The chaos & instability seen worldwide is living proof of what happens when the US sticks its head in the sand. The US will always be a target. Not maintaining our assertiveness and PRESENCE, on a worldwide level, IMHO, makes us an even BIGGER target. And yes, that's extremely dangerous.
 
We waste trillions on a bunch of sand fleas and yet we are skeptical if we can go into another war (especially since this one might actually be NECESSARY).
 
shrubnose said:
How do you fix things after a world-wide nuclear war?

Fill us in. We really need to know this.
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How far does nuclear fallout infect the landscape.

I need to know if I need to move farther down in Mexico.
 
shrubnose said:
I'm just pointing out the main reason why someone in the USA, like President Obama for example, needs to keep a level head while so many people are eager for instant answers to every foreign crisis.

Nukes give you almost instant answers, but who's going to clean up the world-wide nuclear mess after they incinerate and contaminate humanity?
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The Syrian question has been on the table for about three years.

The Syrian policy from Obama is, well, it is yet to be revealed.

What a guy!
 
code1211 said:
The Syrian question has been on the table for about three years.

The Syrian policy from Obama is, well, it is yet to be revealed
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.

What a guy!
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No matter who 'wins' in Syria it's not likely that they'll ever be good buddies with the USA, but we sure don't want ISIS in charge there.
 
shrubnose said:
I'm just pointing out the main reason why someone in the USA, like President Obama for example, needs to keep a level head while so many people are eager for instant answers to every foreign crisis.

Nukes give you almost instant answers, but who's going to clean up the world-wide nuclear mess after they incinerate and contaminate humanity?
Click to expand...

So you're not really trying to discuss as much as just poke holes in others opinions and input...Ok...That really doesn't help anything either.
 
Doppelgangirl said:
I think in the beginning, Obama seemed like a breath of fresh air to a lot of people. In terms of "transformation," to a degree I understood the sentiment, because the prevailing world view of the US was of a nation that frequently stuck their nose in foreign affairs it had no business being involved in. Manipulating other nations out of self-interest. Considering our history, with examples like "School of the Americas" in Central/South America, supporting the Shah in Iran in the mid-20th century, etc, our reputation on the world stage was in the tank.

Enter: Obama. I'd never heard of the man. A girl I worked with in college suddenly went very Pro-Obama, in her words, because he was "endorsed by Oprah." :roll: I don't think the importance of that endorsement can be overstated. Nor can the power of low-information voters in large numbers. ;)

I think he was in over his head from Day 1. The results of his foreign policy (or rather, lack of policy) are being seen today. The US is not perfect. I think we would have a stronger leg to stand on if we didn't privately employ the very shady "tactics" we publicly denounce. I can understand how we are viewed as hypocritical.

Regardless, it is clear that we bring more stability to the world when we are ENGAGED internationally. The world IS safer & more secure. As my southern belle grandma says... "Them's the facts, sugar foot!" The chaos & instability seen worldwide is living proof of what happens when the US sticks its head in the sand. The US will always be a target. Not maintaining our assertiveness and PRESENCE, on a worldwide level, IMHO, makes us an even BIGGER target. And yes, that's extremely dangerous.
Click to expand...

A good assessment of Obama, but I have a very hard time squaring your assertion the world is "better off" with America "sticking it's nose in" where it doesn't belong.

Since before day one, I have been comparing Obama to James Earl Carter, he also creator of a disaster of a foreign policy. Both are really average at the end of the day, both were outsiders promising "change" although the audacious Mr. Obama added the word "hope", which is now....well...

And, they both had no clue as to how things really work. Obama promised everything to "his" supporters while making "enemies" of those who didn't absolutely adore him. A rookie, with just two years, not even a complete term, he failed to realize those "enemies" are Americans too, and like him have been elected to do a job. So unlike Carter, Reagan and George H.W. Bush, he saw no purpose in having his "enemies" to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. for lunch and casual chat about how to get some things done, seek what was founded the US, that long forgotten thing called "compromise".

He took a naive view to Europe and while being basked in adoration over a politically motivated peace prize, he failed to hear the murmurs of US allies, that maybe he didn't have what it takes. Then off to the middle east to "apologize" to Arabs, leaving Israel and US Jews wondering what the hell is going on. Oops, another ally alienated.

From there, I believe he sought to correct his errors [without of course admitting them] and reverted to the Bush+Bush policy of might makes right. I truly believe he now seriously regrets pulling troops out of Iraq then. And I also believe even he now knows he's in way over his head.
 
shrubnose said:
No matter who 'wins' in Syria it's not likely that they'll ever be good buddies with the USA, but we sure don't want ISIS in charge there.
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That's for sure.

3 years ago before ISIS became a cohesive entity, it would have been nice if the Big 0 had done something.

Analysis Paralysis. He and Kerry are well paired. Together, they can examine the bejeebers out of anything and decide with confidence that they are both the smartest guys around.

Of course, the issue is unaffected by their combined brilliance.
 
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Fearandloathing said:
A good assessment of Obama, but I have a very hard time squaring your assertion the world is "better off" with America "sticking it's nose in" where it doesn't belong.

Since before day one, I have been comparing Obama to James Earl Carter, he also creator of a disaster of a foreign policy. Both are really average at the end of the day, both were outsiders promising "change" although the audacious Mr. Obama added the word "hope", which is now....well...

And, they both had no clue as to how things really work. Obama promised everything to "his" supporters while making "enemies" of those who didn't absolutely adore him. A rookie, with just two years, not even a complete term, he failed to realize those "enemies" are Americans too, and like him have been elected to do a job. So unlike Carter, Reagan and George H.W. Bush, he saw no purpose in having his "enemies" to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. for lunch and casual chat about how to get some things done, seek what was founded the US, that long forgotten thing called "compromise".

He took a naive view to Europe and while being basked in adoration over a politically motivated peace prize, he failed to hear the murmurs of US allies, that maybe he didn't have what it takes. Then off to the middle east to "apologize" to Arabs, leaving Israel and US Jews wondering what the hell is going on. Oops, another ally alienated.

From there, I believe he sought to correct his errors [without of course admitting them] and reverted to the Bush+Bush policy of might makes right. I truly believe he now seriously regrets pulling troops out of Iraq then. And I also believe even he now knows he's in way over his head.
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He has apparently given out all the hope he had and has none left to distribute. With a little luck, he's also out of change. we can't afford much more of either of these from this clown.

The only enemy that Obama ever recognized as an enemy is a Republican.

Leadership, as it exists in American Politics is foreign to this petulant and immature bully boy of a chief executive. He continually grabs his ball and goes home. If the press was not his personal PR Firm, we would have been treated to some outstanding journalism used to review his incompetence. Sadly, it's difficult to criticize those that you love.

I don't think he knows he's in over his head. He still thinks he's a community organizer and lives for the applause of the fund raiser crowds. I feel he thinks he's doing great.

He seems unaware that he is failing in everything he is trying to accomplish.

If ignorance is bliss, this guy is delirious.
 
code1211 said:
He has apparently given out all the hope he had and has none left to distribute. With a little luck, he's also out of change. we can't afford much more of either of these from this clown.

The only enemy that Obama ever recognized as an enemy is a Republican.

Leadership, as it exists in American Politics is foreign to this petulant and immature bully boy of a chief executive. He continually grabs his ball and goes home. If the press was not his personal PR Firm, we would have been treated to some outstanding journalism used to review his incompetence. Sadly, it's difficult to criticize those that you love.

I don't think he knows he's in over his head. He still thinks he's a community organizer and lives for the applause of the fund raiser crowds. I feel he thinks he's doing great.

He seems unaware that he is failing in everything he is trying to accomplish.

If ignorance is bliss, this guy is delirious.
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Well written - am I rubbing off on you? and perfectly descriptive.

I agree this president has had the longest honeymoon in history. I was shocked and appalled when after being caught out in the lie "I never said that", the media simply dropped it. Even among his true and dedicated opponents, that incredible breach of honesty stands as the single biggest insult to a populace since Marie "let them eat cake" Antoinette. We had a prime minister named Brian Mulroney who was vague and misleading on a single issue. Her earned the name "lyin' Brian" and went from 240+ seats to just two in the next election.

He may seem unaware he's failing, but that comes with the mild sociopath. They have no real shame in the sense we do. But, he has changed. He is much more careful now, his comments on Ferguson were very lame in comparison to his usual tear jerker rhetoric. More and more we hear "the White House, today..." Instead of "president Obama today....". His comments on the international scene are much more guarded. He is far more quite on everything these days.

He is not stupid. I have never made that claim. He is wise like a **** house rat. He has come from being a community organizer to president of the US; that does not come without cunning and skill and the ability to chew your opponent's throat out.

In that, he cannot exist every day facing an ever increasing and worsening situation on all fronts. He has never had to face the serious and likely threat he will lose congress all together. No president since Kennedy has had to face an angry Russian leader waving his nukes around.

He faces it now.

My fear is that while he knows he's on the ropes, like all **** house rats, he has no clue how to get out of it. And as a self survivalist, he is likely to go full tilt panic when the time comes.
N
 
Fearandloathing said:
A good assessment of Obama, but I have a very hard time squaring your assertion the world is "better off" with America "sticking it's nose in" where it doesn't belong.
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Truthfully, I have a hard time reconciling that one, myself. I guess overall, I see it as more positive than negative. The ONLY reason I see it that way now is due to the observable results we see today. It ain't pretty. I don't agree with the US "sticking its nose in." That was a poor choice of words. The US doesn't hold the patent on the "right" way to do things. Even less so, IMHO, when we start dictating to other cultures. While we objectively are NOT judge and jury, there are examples aplenty of how WE have nominated ourselves to play that role in the world.

However, looking around, it's impossible to deny the results of us disengaging completely. I feel like that's where we are now.

Since before day one, I have been comparing Obama to James Earl Carter, he also creator of a disaster of a foreign policy. Both are really average at the end of the day, both were outsiders promising "change" although the audacious Mr. Obama added the word "hope", which is now....well...
Click to expand...

Demonstrably NOT the flying dove, rainbow-filled, kumbaya fest that was promised? :golf

And, they both had no clue as to how things really work. Obama promised everything to "his" supporters while making "enemies" of those who didn't absolutely adore him. A rookie, with just two years, not even a complete term, he failed to realize those "enemies" are Americans too, and like him have been elected to do a job. So unlike Carter, Reagan and George H.W. Bush, he saw no purpose in having his "enemies" to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. for lunch and casual chat about how to get some things done, seek what was founded the US, that long forgotten thing called "compromise".
Click to expand...

I don't think Obama ever really grasped the true meaning of compromise. He's not alone, sadly. It seems to be a lost art form, as of late.

He took a naive view to Europe and while being basked in adoration over a politically motivated peace prize, he failed to hear the murmurs of US allies, that maybe he didn't have what it takes. Then off to the middle east to "apologize" to Arabs, leaving Israel and US Jews wondering what the hell is going on. Oops, another ally alienated.

From there, I believe he sought to correct his errors [without of course admitting them] and reverted to the Bush+Bush policy of might makes right. I truly believe he now seriously regrets pulling troops out of Iraq then. And I also believe even he now knows he's in way over his head.
Click to expand...

There is no disputing, IMO, we pulled out of Iraq way to quickly. I could make an argument for not having gone in the first place. But the fact is, once you're there and involved, you'd damn well better see it through. Otherwise, you are creating a WORSE problem than the one you started with. I believe that's what we're seeing today. And at that point, sadly, we hold a big chunk of responsibility here. WE chose to get involved. WE had a duty to follow through. We failed in that, and it shows.
 
Fearandloathing said:
My fear is that while he knows he's on the ropes, like all **** house rats, he has no clue how to get out of it. And as a self survivalist, he is likely to go full tilt panic when the time comes.
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And he's the guy in charge of the proverbial "red button." His wishy-washy, indecisiveness kinda scares me.

I might go so far as to say I'd be more comfortable with "Crazy Joe" Biden in charge... :party

That's disturbing...
 
Doppelgangirl said:
Truthfully, I have a hard time reconciling that one, myself. I guess overall, I see it as more positive than negative. The ONLY reason I see it that way now is due to the observable results we see today. It ain't pretty. I don't agree with the US "sticking its nose in." That was a poor choice of words. The US doesn't hold the patent on the "right" way to do things. Even less so, IMHO, when we start dictating to other cultures. While we objectively are NOT judge and jury, there are examples aplenty of how WE have nominated ourselves to play that role in the world.

However, looking around, it's impossible to deny the results of us disengaging completely. I feel like that's where we are now.



Demonstrably NOT the flying dove, rainbow-filled, kumbaya fest that was promised? :golf



I don't think Obama ever really grasped the true meaning of compromise. He's not alone, sadly. It seems to be a lost art form, as of late.



There is no disputing, IMO, we pulled out of Iraq way to quickly. I could make an argument for not having gone in the first place. But the fact is, once you're there and involved, you'd damn well better see it through. Otherwise, you are creating a WORSE problem than the one you started with. I believe that's what we're seeing today. And at that point, sadly, we hold a big chunk of responsibility here. WE chose to get involved. WE had a duty to follow through. We failed in that, and it shows.
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I agree he has no sense of compromise. The man is so insecure he see delaying a bill as a failure.



yes, we can argue about whether the US should have gone into Iraq at all, and remains exhibit "A" in my reasoning that these remote international conflicts be resolved through international co-operation, which Obama has never even asked for. The reasons to go in were lies, the plan faulty and based on deliberately falsified intelligence. The perfect reason why the US should not be involved. That mistake has cost millions of lives and continues to do so.

But, as you point out, it happened, what now? I agree Obama, wanting those troops home in time for the election, pulled out way too soon, demonstrating that he has no concept for local issues.

So you are now stuck and it will require boots on the ground if the US wants to stop ISIS.

But here is my question. Who are you stopping? ISIS is their name today, just as Osama bin Laden had a different name when fighting the Russians.

And one more....do you really know who you're arming? Seems a lot of Americans die from American made weapons supplied by the CIA.
 
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