Page 18 of 28 FirstFirst ... 81617181920 ... LastLast
Results 171 to 180 of 273

Thread: Census figures show more than one-third of Americans receiving welfare benefits

  1. #171
    Sage
    sangha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lower Hudson Valley, NY
    Last Seen
    09-17-17 @ 05:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    59,990

    Re: Census figures show more than one-third of Americans receiving welfare benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by RedAkston View Post
    SS is not welfare, since the people that typically receive it paid into it. Medicare is also paid into for the vast amount of recipients. Tax subsidies and credits are not considered welfare based on the fact that there isn't money going out from the government coffers, but rather a discount on what goes into the coffers. You are moving the goalposts and ignoring the data the article is pointing to. Maybe I expected a more substantive response from you regarding the topic and the numbers that were provided. My bad.
    There is no doubt that many of the people on SS and Medicare are receiving more than they put in. I don't know what definition you're using for the word welfare but I'm going with the Oxford dictionary

    welfare: definition of welfare in Oxford dictionary (American English) (US)
    Statutory procedure or social effort designed to promote the basic physical and material well-being of people in need:
    Note how that definition doesn't distinguish between programs where the recipients contribute to it, and even if you do, the fact is the poor pay taxes too.

    Also, there is no functional difference between collecting taxes and then sending a portion back or instead just reducing the tax in the first place with a deduction or credit. People who own homes get a mortgage deduction. People who do not, don't get that deduction. It's "welfare" for homeowners, pure and simple. The only argument for the deduction is that the people are somehow "deserving"

    It is clear that, in each and every case, what has been classified as "welfare" has been singled out to portray the recipients as poor, lazy, and undeserving, even though (as Karl's posts demonstrate) the vast majority of the recipients either do work (and contribute tax money to the govt) or are children, seniors, disabled or otherwise unable to work.

    IOW, it's not that I'm moving the goalposts; I'm just pointing out the political "dog whistle" that the term "welfare" is. It's an artificial construct designed to distinguish govt programs that help poor people from those that help everyone else (including businesses). If poor people get it, it's "welfare"; Otherwise, it's something else that's not "welfare". In fact, your own definition of "welfare" (ie programs the recipients don't pay into (even if they do)) demonstrates this. After all, they're poor right? So how can they afford to pay into it?

    The thing is, just like the other "non-welfare" programs mentioned, many of the recipients *have* paid into and many have not
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  2. #172
    Sage
    sangha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lower Hudson Valley, NY
    Last Seen
    09-17-17 @ 05:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    59,990

    Re: Census figures show more than one-third of Americans receiving welfare benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by RedAkston View Post
    Selective outrage (or lack thereof) on your part, too funny!
    Geez, and you just got done criticizing me for what you claimed was a non-sustantive argument.

    Is that all you got? You're going to just mock anyone who disagrees with you?
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  3. #173
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:39 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,322

    Re: Census figures show more than one-third of Americans receiving welfare benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by Texmex View Post
    I guess I'm just too selfish, you know like corporations. I worked 40 years, I paid into SS and now I'm receiving money monthly.

    I assume when you reach retirement age you will not accept any SS money.
    Such "all or nothing" with you libs isn't it? Why would you think that you worked and paid in are entitled to receive, and I who worked just as long, and will have paid in longer than your own 40 years by the time I retire should not receive?

    If you said that we should get back what we put in, plus the 1% or whatever it is return over the time period put in then you'd have a valid point, and I might agree, even though it sucks that I, and everyone else in this country working above board has been forced to contribute to such a crappy investment tool based on the ineptitude of others to plan at all for their own senior years. Hell, even if you said that I had the choice to choose either the government's plan or take that money and put it in an investment tool of my own choosing. I could almost guarantee to do better than 1% or less.

    But that aside, I don't have a choice do I? I have to be subject to the force of government to reach in and take an overall 15% (7.5% me, 7.5% employer) from my compensation, my labor to redistribute to people that either didn't plan for their own future, or people like you, and yes, me at some point that will exhaust the original contribution, but still receive payments due to still being alive. It was a ponzi scheme when it was thought up, and even more so now that the funds are kept in the general fund.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  4. #174
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:39 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,322

    Re: Census figures show more than one-third of Americans receiving welfare benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    There is no doubt that many of the people on SS and Medicare are receiving more than they put in. I don't know what definition you're using for the word welfare but I'm going with the Oxford dictionary

    welfare: definition of welfare in Oxford dictionary (American English) (US)


    Note how that definition doesn't distinguish between programs where the recipients contribute to it, and even if you do, the fact is the poor pay taxes too.

    Also, there is no functional difference between collecting taxes and then sending a portion back or instead just reducing the tax in the first place with a deduction or credit. People who own homes get a mortgage deduction. People who do not, don't get that deduction. It's "welfare" for homeowners, pure and simple. The only argument for the deduction is that the people are somehow "deserving"

    It is clear that, in each and every case, what has been classified as "welfare" has been singled out to portray the recipients as poor, lazy, and undeserving, even though (as Karl's posts demonstrate) the vast majority of the recipients either do work (and contribute tax money to the govt) or are children, seniors, disabled or otherwise unable to work.

    IOW, it's not that I'm moving the goalposts; I'm just pointing out the political "dog whistle" that the term "welfare" is. It's an artificial construct designed to distinguish govt programs that help poor people from those that help everyone else (including businesses). If poor people get it, it's "welfare"; Otherwise, it's something else that's not "welfare". In fact, your own definition of "welfare" (ie programs the recipients don't pay into (even if they do)) demonstrates this. After all, they're poor right? So how can they afford to pay into it?

    The thing is, just like the other "non-welfare" programs mentioned, many of the recipients *have* paid into and many have not
    Just a question Sangha if I could...When you say that "Welfare recipients" have "paid" into the system through taxation, could you break down what you mean by that, ie, what taxes, and how they are paying if they are receiving their subsistence from the public coffers, (ie the most commonly defined welfare recipient which include food stamp, housing, subsistence, child care, heating, etc.) Thanks.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  5. #175
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:39 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,322

    Re: Census figures show more than one-third of Americans receiving welfare benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by Sabanist View Post
    If you are close to retirement age you will get that back and then some.

    As each generation passes, the less they get paid in comparison. Gen x people like myself will never get back what we paid into it, milkenials? Forget it.

    Seniors never had it so good, as a result, millenials will be left with the burden
    That depends on what you mean by close...I figure I am on the bubble....52 years old, at least 15 to 17 years from taking SS.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  6. #176
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    09-27-16 @ 12:59 PM
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    5,189

    Re: Census figures show more than one-third of Americans receiving welfare benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Such "all or nothing" with you libs isn't it? Why would you think that you worked and paid in are entitled to receive, and I who worked just as long, and will have paid in longer than your own 40 years by the time I retire should not receive?
    I ask if you would accept it. I didn't even imply that you should not receive SS.

    If you said that we should get back what we put in, plus the 1% or whatever it is return over the time period put in then you'd have a valid point, and I might agree, even though it sucks that I, and everyone else in this country working above board has been forced to contribute to such a crappy investment tool based on the ineptitude of others to plan at all for their own senior years. Hell, even if you said that I had the choice to choose either the government's plan or take that money and put it in an investment tool of my own choosing. I could almost guarantee to do better than 1% or less.

    But that aside, I don't have a choice do I? I have to be subject to the force of government to reach in and take an overall 15% (7.5% me, 7.5% employer) from my compensation, my labor to redistribute to people that either didn't plan for their own future, or people like you, and yes, me at some point that will exhaust the original contribution, but still receive payments due to still being alive. It was a ponzi scheme when it was thought up, and even more so now that the funds are kept in the general fund.
    Gripe, gripe, gripe. You think SS started with me or my generation? Bitch at your father or grandfather. Social Security was here long before I started working.

  7. #177
    Sage
    sangha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lower Hudson Valley, NY
    Last Seen
    09-17-17 @ 05:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    59,990

    Re: Census figures show more than one-third of Americans receiving welfare benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Just a question Sangha if I could...When you say that "Welfare recipients" have "paid" into the system through taxation, could you break down what you mean by that, ie, what taxes, and how they are paying if they are receiving their subsistence from the public coffers, (ie the most commonly defined welfare recipient which include food stamp, housing, subsistence, child care, heating, etc.) Thanks.
    They have paid the same taxes most other people pay like sales taxes, payroll taxes, real estate taxes, income taxes, etc. Just because they are at one time in need of public assistance that doesn't mean that they have never worked. The stats show that the overwhelming majority of people who receive some form of public assistance (children and the disabled excepted) have worked or do work.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  8. #178
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:39 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,322

    Re: Census figures show more than one-third of Americans receiving welfare benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by Texmex View Post
    I ask if you would accept it.
    I would be some kind of fool that would just say that the government can keep what I have paid in for decades wouldn't I? Accept? or Expect?

    I expect it back, that was the deal. No?

    I didn't even imply that you should not receive SS.
    You didn't? You did say "I assume when you reach retirement age you will not accept any SS money." did you not?

    Gripe, gripe, gripe. You think SS started with me or my generation? Bitch at your father or grandfather. Social Security was here long before I started working.
    My father, and grandfather are both long gone, as I am sure your's are as well....Maybe....But I see no real response to what I was saying....I'll take it as non responsive. Thanks.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  9. #179
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    09-27-16 @ 12:59 PM
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    5,189

    Re: Census figures show more than one-third of Americans receiving welfare benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    You didn't? You did say "I assume when you reach retirement age you will not accept any SS money." did you not?
    To assume something is not to wish it to be so.

    My father, and grandfather are both long gone, as I am sure your's are as well....Maybe....But I see no real response to what I was saying....I'll take it as non responsive. Thanks.
    I apologize. It appeared, judging by your posting history, that you were much younger than you are. My mistake.

  10. #180
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:39 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,322

    Re: Census figures show more than one-third of Americans receiving welfare benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    They have paid the same taxes most other people pay like sales taxes, payroll taxes, real estate taxes, income taxes, etc. Just because they are at one time in need of public assistance that doesn't mean that they have never worked. The stats show that the overwhelming majority of people who receive some form of public assistance (children and the disabled excepted) have worked or do work.
    First, thanks for the answer...But let me clarify if I could...When I am speaking of "welfare recipients" I am generally speaking of those that don't have jobs, and receive Housing, food stamps, subsistence, energy, medicaid, etc. I am NOT speaking of those that work, and make so little that they need help like food stamps, or energy, or any combination of those while they work. Maybe I wasn't clear enough and for that I apologize. But, of the people I am speaking of, they are NOT paying sales tax on anything because they are using money we provide them, same with real estate, income, or payroll because it is likely that they don't have any of that.

    So what are they contributing?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

Page 18 of 28 FirstFirst ... 81617181920 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •