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Thread: Ukraine accuses Russia of launching invasion

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of launching invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    However you put it it was an Invasion of a foreign country's territory.
    Is it? Donetsk People's Republic declared independence. You should understand that concept DDD. Your region went through years of wars in the name of declaring independence from Yugoslavia/Serbia. Those states received help from the west to do so. You know NATO bombings and "peacekeepers" sent (SFOR, KFOR and IFOR) and then use of western special operations in that area.

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    It may be a revolution all the way to Dnieper also.
    No, it would a fight for independence to the Dnieper.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of launching invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    It still can. Russia should back the f out!
    So NATO should have backed the f out of the balkans, right? Don't want you to have a double standard.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of launching invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    So NATO should have backed the f out of the balkans, right? Don't want you to have a double standard.
    NATO didn't invade the Balkans and annex the sovereign territory of any other nation state and it certainly didn't commit ethnic cleansing the way Russia did in South Ossettia and now in the Crimea.

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of launching invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    Is it? Donetsk People's Republic declared independence.
    Oh freaking spare us Russian backed terrorists turned Donetsk into an armed camp ruled by fear, terror, kidnappings of politicians, journalists, and human rights activists, and the mass murder of civilians including those who refused to fight against their fellow Ukrainians, and now in the Crimea we have overt ethnic cleansing of ethnic Ukrainians.

    “We are talking of a reign of fear, if not of terror” in the pockets of territory around Donetsk and Luhansk controlled by armed separatists and now experiencing a state of total lawlessness, Mr. Magazzeni said, citing cases of people shot at checkpoints for no reason and members of armed groups who were summarily shot because they no longer wanted to fight.

    “The escalation in criminal activity resulting in human rights abuses is no longer limited to targeting journalists, elected representatives, local politicians, civil servants and civil society activists,” the report stated. “Abductions, detentions, acts of ill-treatment and torture, and killings by armed groups are now affecting the broader population of the two eastern regions.”

    The United Nations refugee agency has reported that more than 34,000 Ukrainians have been displaced. Most were from Crimea, where people who speak Ukrainian or do not want to change their nationality to Russian face discrimination and intimidation, Mr. Magazzeni said.

    “They are mostly concerned about security: people report staying in cellars to keep away from the fighting, facing harassment at checkpoints and fearing the increasingly common abductions, threats and extortion,” the monitors reported.


    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/19/wo...aine.html?_r=0

    Their "declaration of independence" has as much legitimacy as that of ISIL's declaration of an Islamic State in the Levant, IE none whatsoever.

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of launching invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    Is it? Donetsk People's Republic declared independence. You should understand that concept DDD. Your region went through years of wars in the name of declaring independence from Yugoslavia/Serbia. Those states received help from the west to do so. You know NATO bombings and "peacekeepers" sent (SFOR, KFOR and IFOR) and then use of western special operations in that area.
    I know of them of course. I do not see the similarities though. In this case it just is about Russia's annexation. In our case we were liberated and no other greater country annexed us, we were left on our own.

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    So NATO should have backed the f out of the balkans, right? Don't want you to have a double standard.
    If that would happen Russia would annex the whole of Yugoslavia right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    No, it would a fight for independence to the Dnieper.
    But independence does not occurs does it oh great Austrian Icon? Parts of countries are being annexed one after the other?!
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of launching invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by face, your View Post
    Oh freaking spare us Russian backed terrorists turned Donetsk into an armed camp ruled by fear, terror, kidnappings of politicians, journalists, and human rights activists, and the mass murder of civilians including those who refused to fight against their fellow Ukrainians, and now in the Crimea we have overt ethnic cleansing of ethnic Ukrainians.

    “We are talking of a reign of fear, if not of terror” in the pockets of territory around Donetsk and Luhansk controlled by armed separatists and now experiencing a state of total lawlessness, Mr. Magazzeni said, citing cases of people shot at checkpoints for no reason and members of armed groups who were summarily shot because they no longer wanted to fight.

    “The escalation in criminal activity resulting in human rights abuses is no longer limited to targeting journalists, elected representatives, local politicians, civil servants and civil society activists,” the report stated. “Abductions, detentions, acts of ill-treatment and torture, and killings by armed groups are now affecting the broader population of the two eastern regions.”

    The United Nations refugee agency has reported that more than 34,000 Ukrainians have been displaced. Most were from Crimea, where people who speak Ukrainian or do not want to change their nationality to Russian face discrimination and intimidation, Mr. Magazzeni said.

    “They are mostly concerned about security: people report staying in cellars to keep away from the fighting, facing harassment at checkpoints and fearing the increasingly common abductions, threats and extortion,” the monitors reported.


    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/19/wo...aine.html?_r=0

    Their "declaration of independence" has as much legitimacy as that of ISIL's declaration of an Islamic State in the Levant, IE none whatsoever.
    We have suffered all these through Russia's Serbian satellite in Europe. Now some claim that the bully's case is a similar one with ours?!

    Well, heck no!
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of launching invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelW View Post
    So...no. You cannot prove it.
    That isn't what I said. I said its been hashed out in the European forum, and I'm not going looking for the links to post in a thread unrelated to this thread topic and have the mods complaining. Use google.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of launching invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by face, your View Post
    Debunked nonsense, the claim that the U.S. funded the protests against Yanukovych is a proven lie despite how much RT and various other Russian State Owned Propaganda mills repeat it:

    US Did Not Spend $5 Billion to Destabilize Yanukovich

    This has been a war of aggression on the part of Russia from the beginning, first with economic warfare in order to prevent the Ukraine's right to self determination which prompted peaceful protests supported by the majority of Ukrainians which resulted in a Russian puppet at the direct behest of Putin, sending in his jack booted thugs to attack and murder the protesters which resulted in his impeachment followed by his treasonous self imposed exile to Russian occupied territory, then what happened next is Russia invaded, occupied, installed an occupation government with Spec Ops holding AKs and rocket launchers in the Crimean parliamentary building during the swearing in of a new Crimean "prime minister" and this was followed by the outright illegal annexation of sovereign Ukrainian territory by the Russian Federation through a fraudulent and illegal referendum in which only two options were offered cessation or annexation rather than maintaining the status quo and which did not allow for the majority of Ukrainians to participate, and which violated both the Ukrainian and Crimean Constitutions which mandated that all Ukrainians be allowed to participate in any referendum regarding changes of sovereign Ukrainian territory.
    Perhaps you don't recognise NATO expansion when you see it. Russia isn't concerned about your opinion, and they're not having it.

    It's not Russia that's pushed Ukraine to the brink of war
    The attempt to lever Kiev into the western camp by ousting an elected leader made conflict certain. It could be a threat to us all.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...-kiev-conflict

    http://scgnews.com/washingtons-role-...out-of-control

    http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle37790.htm
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of launching invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Perhaps you don't recognise NATO expansion when you see it. Russia isn't concerned about your opinion, and they're not having it.
    Well they can go an f themselves. If they think they can conquer Ukraine they have another thing coming.

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It's not Russia that's pushed Ukraine to the brink of war
    The attempt to lever Kiev into the western camp by ousting an elected leader made conflict certain. It could be a threat to us all.

    It's not Russia that's pushed Ukraine to the brink of war | Seumas Milne | Comment is free | The Guardian

    Washington's Role in the Ukrainian Coup & How it May Spin Out of Control | SCG News

    The Coup in Ukraine: Obama’s Dumbest Plan Yet
    Ukraine decided to no longer be under the bullies claws and turned to freedom in EU. The EU and USA may have helped after such a decision was made. This is not enough grounds to annex Ukrainian territories like Russia is doing.
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of launching invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    It still can. Russia should back the f out!
    No! NATO should stop trying to expand eastward.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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