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Thread: Ukraine accuses Russia of launching invasion

  1. #151
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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of launching invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Actually, Russian resolve and unflinching is the "period"! Deal with it.
    A resolved and unflinching attitude would not have settled for an agreement as quickly as Putin did with Ukraine today!
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of launching invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    How do you suppose I claimed to be a broker for Russia? My observations tell me that the West made an attempt to expand NATO eastward, that's hardly propaganda. I have also observed that Russia immediately called Bull**** and moved to counter it. It's in their utmost interest to prevent it. I also am observing that Western response to Russia's response hasn't backed Russia up one bit. It would appear that Russia is willing to pay the price to protect their interests, naturally.
    Russia quickly made an agreement with Ukraine rather than follow its threats with military. So I say it backed off quite "one bit" on this one.
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
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  3. #153
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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of launching invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Jeez....another 'Ukrainian said this' thread.

    Enough already.

    Who started this thread anyways?

    ...

    Never mind.
    Funniest post ever. Youre a god, DA60.

  4. #154
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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of launching invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    Come onnnnnn! Don't insult my intelligence. You know damn well what I asked for. All you have to do is read my post!

    One more time: where is the prove that your contention that the west, Europe, NATO, CIA, whatever, was behind the protests, overthrow, etc. of the Ukraine government that lead to the situation we are in. All I ask for is a link from a credible source to back up your contention. I'll be waiting but I won't hold my breath.
    You claim you want evidence but claim only the evidence can come from "credible" source. What's a credible source? I find hacked email accounts of Euromaidan leadership pretty credible, but I don't consider MSM as credible either since they are typically a few decades behind the truth.

    Ask and you shall receive.

    Klitschko emails .

    How about the leading US expert on Russia?

    Another good read on what's really happening
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

  5. #155
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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of launching invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    I never said it was anything like the US or Swiss today. But rather like the US proposal under the Articles of Confederation, you know the Constitution before the current Constitution. There is nothing wrong with Russia's plan in allowing Donetsk and Luhansk to strike agreements with others (obviously Russia) when this area's biggest trade partner is Russia, not EU, not even Western Ukraine, but Russia.
    Two problems with this.

    1) Russia will not allow Ukraine to economically join the European Union (EU) and simultaneously trade with the Eurasian Economic Union (EEC). It is either a EEC union agreement or nothing proposition.

    2) The autonomous eastern oblasts would certainly use their Rada parliamentary powers to veto any Kyiv EU initiatives with the West. Such parliamentary power would be akin to Alabama and Mississippi (or any states) being able to veto treaties negotiated by Washington D.C. on behalf of the United States.

    These are two of the reasons why the federation schema put forth by Russia are unworkable and amount to dismemberment by other means.

  6. #156
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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of launching invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    I hope the full sanctions are still implemented, and stay in place until there is a lasting peace. Putin has been an expert at promising one thing while actually doing the opposite.

    In the meantime, the UN could provide expert consultants from northeren Ireland to advise local governments, police and paramilitary forces how to get along with each other. Northeren Ireland and eastern Ukraine have alot in common with each other:
    - Two peoples with a shared history, but with seperate identities live on the same land
    - Both peoples have legitimate greviences
    - Neither side can truly win militarily
    - Depite differences, both have a lot in common- so much that they cant really tell each other apart.
    - Both sides have alot of factions ranging from the hardcore to the moderate
    West has a habit of doing the same thing to Russia. Tit for Tat.

    Northern Ireland and Ukraine HAVE nothing in common.

    Three of those on your list are far from true. Ukrainians are closer to Russians (as they all came from the Kiev Rus, Rurik dynasty) then Irish are to Ulster-Scots/Anglo-Saxons. Ulster-Scots/Anglo-Saxons came to Ireland as part of colonization of Ireland (Plantations of Ireland). You can tell a Ulster-Scot from an Irish person as they live in separate communities, support different things, and go to different churches (mostly). Remember, Northern Ireland is the place of "Peace walls".

    No such thing as experts consultants on Northern Ireland. The "peace process" is in it's early stages with acts of violence still happening. It's also not a process that can be done easily without the right circumstances. Ukraine situation doesn't have them. Northern Ireland went through almost 30 years of violence before "peace" became possible. Those who were fighting in the early 70's in the 20s were hitting their 50's and in charge during the 1990s. It took them a good 25 years to accept the reality that they couldn't win out right and it took 25 years for UK Government to realize it couldn't win either. Then there is nobody in Ukraine who has the respect of both extreme factions like Northern Ireland had John Hume with the help of David Trimble. Also there is no 3rd party (Nation) that can step in from a neutral role like the US did in Northern Ireland peace process.

    So it's kinda fool hearty to believe the two are related.
    Last edited by austrianecon; 09-04-14 at 06:27 AM.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of launching invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    Two problems with this.

    1) Russia will not allow Ukraine to economically join the European Union (EU) and simultaneously trade with the Eurasian Economic Union (EEC). It is either a EEC union agreement or nothing proposition.

    2) The autonomous eastern oblasts would certainly use their Rada parliamentary powers to veto any Kyiv EU initiatives with the West. Such parliamentary power would be akin to Alabama and Mississippi (or any states) being able to veto treaties negotiated by Washington D.C. on behalf of the United States.

    These are two of the reasons why the federation schema put forth by Russia are unworkable and amount to dismemberment by other means.
    1) Because EU membership requires alliance militarily with EU and NATO. Russia will go ballistic (pun intended) if Ukraine joins NATO. Russia doesn't want NATO on it's main border and has for years said, Poland and no further.

    2) 2 Oblasts of 24 has the ability to block what 22 other approve? Do you not see the problem with your analogy? Each US State has a 2 votes (Senators) on treaties. It would take 25 States plus one Senator from another State to block a treaty. It would require likely the same thing in Ukraine.

    The only option left on the table is let those 2 Oblasts go and Ukraine can be free to do what it wants. Problem is EU and IMF want those 2 Oblasts for their resources. Hence here we are..
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

  8. #158
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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of launching invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    You claim you want evidence but claim only the evidence can come from "credible" source. What's a credible source? I find hacked email accounts of Euromaidan leadership pretty credible, but I don't consider MSM as credible either since they are typically a few decades behind the truth.

    Ask and you shall receive.

    Klitschko emails .

    How about the leading US expert on Russia?

    Another good read on what's really happening

    You're kidding right? An anonymous source and two blogs? Seriously? Wow such low standards.

    I rest my case. There is no proof that the west was involved in overthrow of the Ukrainian government, protests, etc. etc. None! You people are just making stuff up to fit what you want to believe. You'd make state run Russian news proud!

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of launching invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Although, I do not agree with the practise.

    I think it is laughable for Russia to be sanctioned for supporting Ukrainian rebels when America openly supports other countries/organizations (often, corrupt regimes like Saudi Arabia) with many times the arms and support then Russia does; and yet no one even hints at sanctioning America for it.

    Pure hypocrisy.
    The only difference is that the US isn't out there looking to steal land/conquer and create or "reclaim" an empire. Presently it is obvious Russia is looking to reclaim the USSR.

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of launching invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    Oh, that's right! Nuland was handing out cookies at a Maidan protest! That proves covert ops.

    Those two things and the aid package(s) to the post-revolution government are literally the only things I've seen as an attempt to connect NATO to the overthrow of Yanukovych.
    Well it wasn't just NATO though.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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