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Thread: Ukraine accuses Russia of launching invasion

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of launching invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I don't disagree with that. Do you think our government was unaware of it. Why did they provide him the impetus and the legitimacy.
    I think our government was aware that Putin has the general desire to bring Belarus and Ukraine "back into the fold".

    Aruably, the small scale annexing of south Ossetia and Abkhazia should have been red flags that Putin had an intense desire to bring Ukraine and Belarus back- and would use force to do it.

    At the end of the day though- Obama does not live in a world where leaders, espescially European leaders, use humans as chess pieces and try to sieze entire European nations. As a result, Putin's Old school attitudes and intense actions caught everyone by surprise.

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of launching invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Precisely. And Yanukovych cut off negotiations with the EU and had signed deals with Russia. This implemented a US/EU supported coup, a violent overthrow of the Ukrainian government, and installation of a pro-Western government, immediately (conveniently) recognised by the West. This is fact, and it doesn't matter whether or not you accept it. Russia called bull****, and they seem prepared to pay the price to maintain a buffer between them and the EU. Hopefully, the EU won't push it to the point of all out war.
    Still waiting for that link or links that prove your contentions. How many weeks will I have to wait until you admit this is all conjecture?

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of launching invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    No! The Ukraine chose Russia and the government was overthrown by a US/EU backed coup. If you want Russia to back up, as you stated earlier, you better start pushing. So far, Russia appears resolute.
    Actually a lot of the populace wanted to go with the EU and cried foul when Russian's puppet didn't.



    In 2012, the EU initialled deals on free trade and political association with Ukraine; however, EU leaders stated that these agreements would not be ratified unless Ukraine addresses concerns over a "stark deterioration of democracy and the rule of law", including the imprisonment of Yulia Tymoshenko and Yuriy Lutsenko in 2011 and 2012.[2][3][4][nb 1] Deadlines where set for Ukraine to carry out the required changes to its justice and electoral systems in order to enable the formal signing of their agreements with the EU in Vilnius on 29 November 2013.[8] But although the then Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych had urged the Ukrainian parliament to adopt laws so that Ukraine could meet the EU's criteria,[9][10][nb 2] the Ukrainian government suspended preparations for signing the association agreement on 21 November 2013.[6][12] Yanukovych still attended the aforementioned EU summit in Vilnius on 28–29 November 2013 where the association agreement was originally planned to be signed but it was not.[9][13] The decision to put off signing the association agreement led to large, widespread protests in Ukraine.[14] These led to the removal of Yanukovych and his government by parliament after the 2014 Ukrainian revolution in February 2014.[6][15] Since then Ukraine is in turmoil because of the 2014 Crimean crisis and the 2014 pro-Russian conflict in Ukraine.[1][6]

    The political part of the Association Agreement was signed on 21 March 2014 by the new Prime Minister, Arseniy Yatsenyuk.[1] Meanwhile the EU has attempted to stabilise Ukraine by freezing assets of Russians and Ukrainians and by granting financial help to Ukraine.[1][6][16] The economic part of the Ukraine–European Union Association Agreement on 27 June 2014 by the new President, Petro Poroshenko.[17]

    Ukraine

  4. #124
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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of launching invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    How do you suppose I claimed to be a broker for Russia? My observations tell me that the West made an attempt to expand NATO eastward, that's hardly propaganda. I have also observed that Russia immediately called Bull**** and moved to counter it. It's in their utmost interest to prevent it. I also am observing that Western response to Russia's response hasn't backed Russia up one bit. It would appear that Russia is willing to pay the price to protect their interests, naturally.

    You have it wrong and overly simplistic. You really need to do some more reading of reliable sources. Of course the west would love to have Ukraine as part of the west but you have your facts wrong.

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of launching invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    Still waiting for that link or links that prove your contentions. How many weeks will I have to wait until you admit this is all conjecture?
    Still waiting for you to be precise. For what do you want a link. That the US was covertly involved in the situation that led to the overthrow of the Kiev government and implementation of a pro-Western government. Or that Russia's response is natural, and likely that they are willing to pay the cost to deny Ukraine becoming a NATO member, or perhaps something else you wish for.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of launching invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    Actually a lot of the populace wanted to go with the EU and cried foul when Russian's puppet didn't.



    In 2012, the EU initialled deals on free trade and political association with Ukraine; however, EU leaders stated that these agreements would not be ratified unless Ukraine addresses concerns over a "stark deterioration of democracy and the rule of law", including the imprisonment of Yulia Tymoshenko and Yuriy Lutsenko in 2011 and 2012.[2][3][4][nb 1] Deadlines where set for Ukraine to carry out the required changes to its justice and electoral systems in order to enable the formal signing of their agreements with the EU in Vilnius on 29 November 2013.[8] But although the then Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych had urged the Ukrainian parliament to adopt laws so that Ukraine could meet the EU's criteria,[9][10][nb 2] the Ukrainian government suspended preparations for signing the association agreement on 21 November 2013.[6][12] Yanukovych still attended the aforementioned EU summit in Vilnius on 28–29 November 2013 where the association agreement was originally planned to be signed but it was not.[9][13] The decision to put off signing the association agreement led to large, widespread protests in Ukraine.[14] These led to the removal of Yanukovych and his government by parliament after the 2014 Ukrainian revolution in February 2014.[6][15] Since then Ukraine is in turmoil because of the 2014 Crimean crisis and the 2014 pro-Russian conflict in Ukraine.[1][6]

    The political part of the Association Agreement was signed on 21 March 2014 by the new Prime Minister, Arseniy Yatsenyuk.[1] Meanwhile the EU has attempted to stabilise Ukraine by freezing assets of Russians and Ukrainians and by granting financial help to Ukraine.[1][6][16] The economic part of the Ukraine–European Union Association Agreement on 27 June 2014 by the new President, Petro Poroshenko.[17]

    Ukraine
    Yes, polls showed a 50/50 split. Little wonder that Russia responded as they did. Btw, you seem to disapprove of Putins response to the Ukrainian coup, do you approve of Obama's?
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of launching invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    You have it wrong and overly simplistic. You really need to do some more reading of reliable sources. Of course the west would love to have Ukraine as part of the west but you have your facts wrong.
    Oh I see. Attempted NATO expansion, swift Russian pushback, and stalemate.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of launching invasion

    Good news, the Ukrainian Presidnet and Putin are talking.
    Kremlin denies that Poroshenko and Putin agreed on ceasefire (UPDATES)

    Bad news, is that there are alot of details to figure out. I think the largest annd most difficult issue will be whether or not Ukrainian troops must leave those provinces in their entirety.

    In the past, Putin insisted on all Ukrainian forces leaving and the Ukrainians have completely refused as this would lead to the gradual loss of both provinces to Putin. Now, maybe they are talking about Ukrainian forces only needing to move heavy artillery out of range of large rebel held towns.

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of launching invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Good news, the Ukrainian Presidnet and Putin are talking.
    Kremlin denies that Poroshenko and Putin agreed on ceasefire (UPDATES)

    Bad news, is that there are alot of details to figure out. I think the largest annd most difficult issue will be whether or not Ukrainian troops must leave those provinces in their entirety.

    In the past, Putin insisted on all Ukrainian forces leaving and the Ukrainians have completely refused as this would lead to the gradual loss of both provinces to Putin. Now, maybe they are talking about Ukrainian forces only needing to move heavy artillery out of range of large rebel held towns.
    Putin needs a way to save face and eventually have the sanctions lifted that are stifling his economy. This is a start.

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    Re: Ukraine accuses Russia of launching invasion

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Oh I see. Attempted NATO expansion, swift Russian pushback, and stalemate.
    I give up. You keep telling me your opinion but won't verify it. I call BS.

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